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[Sir Tigger KC]

Interesting thread this and it's evolving to have 2 or three sub threads... 

Firstly. We've all eyed a pretty girl whilst driving along and nearly hit something/someone, it's one of those jokey conversations down the pub "Blimey, you should have seen this blonde up the High Street! What a pair of legs!! I nearly ended up in the butchers shop....."  It's called driving without due care and attention and if the bloke was looking over his shoulder to look at the girl whilst driving, as the article suggests, then IMO it was a fair pull by the Police.  However a bollocking rather than a fixed penalty would have sufficed I'd have thought! 
Consider this though. What if he'd mowed down a couple of kids while looking at the girl, because he didn't see them?? 

Secondly. Rods, I've lived and worked in Eastern European and African countries where a few notes tucked in the driving licence solves the problem, in the same way you describe in Ukraine.  However, any notion that the PC in Kiev or Kampala dosn't operate under targets is nonsense.  These guys have to hand over a proportion of any 'fines' collected to their Sergeant, who in turn has to hand over a proportion of his take to his Inspector and so on.  In short it's a pyramid scheme and the guys at the top make serious money, and put alot of pressure down the chain to ensure the cash keeps coming!!  Corruption breeds corruption so they say, but when threatened with a night in an African or Eastern European gaol, we'd all hand the cash over. I speak from experience!! 

Thirdly. Anyone comparing British Police forces to the Nazis and concentration camp guards should read 'The Holocaust - The Jewish Tragedy' by Martin Gilbert It's not really bed time reading as it is harrowing stuff and is first hand accounts from survivors of that terrible time..... 

Bit serious for me on a Saturday morning!! 

[Dishevelled Den]

Den, cant quote you as it went over the 6000 allowed characters, but here goes.

Ok, not meant to offend, but as usual someone has taken offence. The programme was probably on sky channel 531 Military channel as this is the one I watch most. No I do not recall the exact name of the programme. I was not tryng to infer anything in particular. But if I where to speculate. It would be along the lines of "those seeking power have an agenda" I realise you are an ex, and I know a 2 ex PCs both of these are old school are are somewhat disturbed by some of todays police.

"a vast generalisation" well yes I suppose it is, but don't we all make generalisations on virtually everything we see and hear daily ? One young driver who has an accident and they are all labelled bad drivers. One old driver has an accident and then the call goes out again for retests for the elderly, the list goes on. An old labourer once said to me "believe nothing of what you read and believe only half of what you see"


A couple of known examples.
My 12 year old (at the time) son and his 2 friends go to the woods (as I did as a child) they walk home and one of hs friends is carrying a thin stick about as thick as your smallest finger and about 18 inches long, very green and flexible. The police stop all 3 of them, and have to issue paperwork to my son saying why he was stopped, now that bit is important. Why was he stopped walking down the road doing nothing himself ? Why did the police even speak to him ? My son is not like me much, he is much like his grandfather, a country bumpkin who cannot get on with the way this country is going, rules/laws for the sake of it. We all used to have long sticks for flinging clay, and catapults. These things in the rght hands are perfectly safe. New policeman arrives in village and thinks we are no better than crooks.

I bought a moped, it had been off the road for about 5 years, no headlight no rear brake and generally looked like it had been off the road for a while. I decide to push it home through residential streets (non runner) About half way home a policeman on a motorbike pulls up about 50 yards ahead of me. I catch up to him and he asks a few obvious questions and checks my reciept and bt of V5 from the seller. Then I am allowed on my way.

The first example, make your own mind up. The second example in my opinion is of a PC doing his job and making the correct decision. Well done to him.
If the "wrong" PC had stopped me no doubt I would have been fined and have points on my licence.

No doubt you think I am wrong, and in another place it would be wrong. policing is something that needs to be done on an area by area basis. It is not something that can be blindly applied everywhere.

No offence was intended in any of what I have wrtten. But again having to defend.

I’m not in the least offended Manta and you certainly do not have to defend your opinion based on what you have just written.  I had to question your original piece as the example chosen was somewhat puzzling and of such a strong symbolic nature that I was obliged to ask you to expand your thinking - which you have now done and for which I thank you.

I have said many times that, irrespective of the duties performed by any officer in any given set of circumstances, he/she must act within the law, be courteous (but firm when required) and above all treat those people under notice how they themselves would wish to be treated.

This desirable equilibrium isn't always possible as the attitude now shown by some members of the public towards the police -and indeed the very nature of policing due to the changing demographic within communities across the country - has changed radically over the years.   The net result of such changes has led to many instances where conflict between the police and the public has become the rule rather than the exception.

This is of course a bad thing because having some form of order on our streets requires a two way effort between the police and every citizen of this country – to have battle lines drawn as a result of unacceptable behaviour by either group can only result in the essential compact between the police, and those they police, to be lost.