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[Kevin Wood]

I think a lot of UK middle managers really need a reality check  

I think a lot of them are probably superfluous. If they're whingeing about things like this they clearly have no useful purpose to serve.

Kevin

[TheBoy]

I think a lot of UK middle managers really need a reality check  

I think a lot of them are probably superfluous. If they're whingeing about things like this they clearly have no useful purpose to serve.

Kevin

In my current company, we were promised a flatter mgmt structure. LOL, they have gone entirely the other way.  I reckon we currently have 1 chief for every 2 indians at the moment...

[FRE07962128]

Alas, times have changed within BT now - I still have many friends there, and it seems the 'engineers' are not allowed to use their own discretion, and are treated like kids.

Familiar story these days. Take people on, train them, an then don't allow them to use their skills, nor any common sense.

I would complain to BT's regulator, whichever quango that is these days, and copy it to head office. Even if the line has to be rerouted in the long term, I can't see why someone can't temporarily repair the existing line or put something temporary in place. It's unbelieveable.

Kevin

In my day, running a bit of jumper wire along a ditch to give temporary repair was the norm.  However, I think BT are worried about someone tripping over it, and sueing  


As to discretion, I had a blazing row with my boss the other day over working on a bit one evening during a major DNS/Radius outage.  I don't get anything for working over, but he still moaned at me for not seeking his approval beforehand.  Good job he doesn't know about the early starts I do for swapping out 'publically used' servers, which need to be done before the UK internet usage ramps up (so before 7:30am)  

I think a lot of UK middle managers really need a reality check  

The problem is TB that as a Manager, especially at middle / higher levels you are highly trained to understand that under H & S legislation you personnally can be held legally responsible for any breach in regulations that allows employees under your control to put themselves at risk, and worse still causes actual injury or death.  This can result in imprisionment and unlimited fine.  

Although I was on a great salary package, nothing is financially or morally enough to "allow" you to possibly put yourself at risk of prosecution or the thought of causing somebody's death.  That is the managers dilemma!   Would you "risk it"? :-? :-?

[zirk]

Dial 100 from another BT phone (or what ever the number is now) and demand to speak to the Chairman. You wont get through to him but you will get through to a room full of people claiming they are the Chairmans Secatary, normally within a couple of hours of that call people start contacting you telling you how there going to fix the issue.

Also as mentioned before plenty of copensation should be comming back to you or your business, they have fixed rate for domestic and business so they should be able to give you some idea what its worth now!

[Dusty]

Have emailed my local MP this morning about 10.30am, and was surprised to get a telephone call from his secretary about midday. They are going to look into it for us.

So far we seem to have 4 distinct health and safety issues.

1 The grassy track used twice a year by the farmer is deemed too dangerous fro the BT engineers to cross.

2. The electricity and telephone are on the same pole.

3. The pole is too short to work on, only 5.2m

4. D Pole. was infact not a d pole. Just too short to work on :-/

[TheBoy]

The problem is TB that as a Manager, especially at middle / higher levels you are highly trained to understand that under H & S legislation you personnally can be held legally responsible for any breach in regulations that allows employees under your control to put themselves at risk, and worse still causes actual injury or death.  This can result in imprisionment and unlimited fine.  

Although I was on a great salary package, nothing is financially or morally enough to "allow" you to possibly put yourself at risk of prosecution or the thought of causing somebody's death.  That is the managers dilemma!   Would you "risk it"? :-? :-?

I agree - when I used to look after 35 blokes, I always left it to their discretion. They were the chaps onsite, and thus in the best position to make a decision.  They weren't as stupid as middle management thought they were - just because they are rolling around in a wet field doesn't make them idiots.

Working for a yankee company now, its obvious the sue culture is much worse there, as the number of those pointless online courses covering all non useful subjects is unbearable. Everyone, management includede, knows that we simply click through them without taking any notice, but it covers their arses.  Problem is, a lot of US law is not applicable here...

[TheBoy]

Have emailed my local MP this morning about 10.30am, and was surprised to get a telephone call from his secretary about midday. They are going to look into it for us.

So far we seem to have 4 distinct health and safety issues.

1 The grassy track used twice a year by the farmer is deemed too dangerous fro the BT engineers to cross.

2. The electricity and telephone are on the same pole.

3. The pole is too short to work on, only 5.2m

4. D Pole. was infact not a d pole. Just too short to work on :-/

Ah! That could be an issue.  If the track is classed as a thoroughfare, minimum height of wire must be 5.5m  

[Kevin Wood]

Have emailed my local MP this morning about 10.30am, and was surprised to get a telephone call from his secretary about midday. They are going to look into it for us.

So far we seem to have 4 distinct health and safety issues.

1 The grassy track used twice a year by the farmer is deemed too dangerous fro the BT engineers to cross.

2. The electricity and telephone are on the same pole.

3. The pole is too short to work on, only 5.2m

4. D Pole. was infact not a d pole. Just too short to work on :-/

Ah! That could be an issue.  If the track is classed as a thoroughfare, minimum height of wire must be 5.5m  

.. but the pole was put up by someone. Presumably it met the standards then. Nobody goes round refusing to touch victorian houses because they don't meet curent building regs. Or maybe they do. Wouldn't surprise me.  

The problem in hand is not that the pole is too short, it's that the line is breaked. Surely if the pole was Ok before the line was breaked... No. Let's not start using logic. It clearly doesn't apply here.

Kevin

[TheBoy]

Have emailed my local MP this morning about 10.30am, and was surprised to get a telephone call from his secretary about midday. They are going to look into it for us.

So far we seem to have 4 distinct health and safety issues.

1 The grassy track used twice a year by the farmer is deemed too dangerous fro the BT engineers to cross.

2. The electricity and telephone are on the same pole.

3. The pole is too short to work on, only 5.2m

4. D Pole. was infact not a d pole. Just too short to work on :-/

Ah! That could be an issue.  If the track is classed as a thoroughfare, minimum height of wire must be 5.5m  

.. but the pole was put up by someone. Presumably it met the standards then. Nobody goes round refusing to touch victorian houses because they don't meet curent building regs. Or maybe they do. Wouldn't surprise me.  

The problem in hand is not that the pole is too short, it's that the line is breaked. Surely if the pole was Ok before the line was breaked... No. Let's not start using logic. It clearly doesn't apply here.

Kevin

H&S again, Mr Wood.  Back in early nineties, a truck caught a low wire, and as it snapped and whipped, it caught a little girl, killing her instantly  

There was an exisiting law about low wires, but was fairly disregarded. After this incident, it the local authorities said they would clamp down...