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Author Topic: Will this help....  (Read 4523 times)

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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Will this help....
« Reply #30 on: 18 June 2021, 20:35:15 »

It was the IDEA of Sippy Cup propped in the corner at 30A next to the toilet with no recline rather than the far more comfortable reality of a Presidential trans Atlantic crossing  ;)

Trump's 757 isn't a C32 and vice versa. ;)

Although I would rather fly on it than in a C32 full of lefty hacks, regardless of how nice a C32 might be...  :-X And as if gold plated fixtures matter...  ;D Saudia used to have gold plated toilet bowls, purple velvet seat covers and shagpile carpet in first class on their 747-300 Combis... By comparison, economy was worse than Airtours ;D in fact the main deck hold was probably more comfortable  :D

Incidentally, if that screen shot was from just after 9 pm the other night, Flightradar showed what is suggested as AF1 as a C32, because that's roughly where it was and at more or less that altitude when I happened to see it. Not that I particularly care, nor that it matters in the slightest. You clearly spend alot of time 'monitoring' such things so not looking to have a debate about it ;) hypothetically speaking though, if an aircraft can so readily be (mis)identified as something it isn't, what's to say that MH17 didn't land on Diego Garcia as a Gulfstream? 🤔

For me, Flightradar is a useful tool for seeing roughly where my next aircraft has got to and is a bit less tedious than trawling through the daily allocations from Luton ::)

Incidentally isn't Air Force One technically the call sign of whatever the President happens to be flying on board? The converted 747 being what people consider the generic presidential aircraft...
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LC0112G

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Re: Will this help....
« Reply #31 on: 19 June 2021, 12:01:51 »

None of the Flight tracking websites are perfect - they all have their problems. They are mostly very good for general civil aircraft movements because there isn't really any requirement to disguise what is going on. I'm not really interested in civil - other than to know if my TUi B737 has actually landed at Exeter/Bristol ready for my 6AM tomorrow morning flight.

Military coverage is where it's at for me, and Flightradar/FR24 is probably the worst for that.  In order to get access to official FAA radar feeds they have had to agree to mask sensitive flights from public view. Sensitive has expanded to include most Military and even some biz-jets operated by multi-millionaires.

Incase you don't know, ModeS tracking ony requires that an aircraft transmits it's "unique" 24 bit number, it's callsign, it's altitude, and it's squawk. They NEVER transmit their tail number or type. In addition if an aircraft is ADSB enabled it can also transmit it's latitude and longitude. Most military aircraft nowadays are fitted with all of the above (full ADSB), but many of them fly with the ADSB turned off. Therefore all you get is callsign, altitude and the "unique" 24 bit number.

It requires a database to convert the 24 bit numbers (called ICAO codes) to aircraft tail numbers/serials so know what the aircraft is. The vast majority of civil aircraft use a 'static' number - they are allocated the number by the state they're registered in.

Many Military aircraft also use 'static' allocations, but 'dynamic' allocation is becoming more common, particularly on US navy P-8's and USAF F-15's. RAF F-35Bs rarely show on Mode S, but when they do they always show as tail number ZM150 and callsign "F35LGHTNG", which means that all of them seen to date are using the same 24 bit ICAO code.

hypothetically speaking though, if an aircraft can so readily be (mis)identified as something it isn't, what's to say that MH17 didn't land on Diego Garcia as a Gulfstream? 🤔

Absolutely nothing. ModeS/ADSB data only shows what is probably up there, and if someone is determined to spoof the system its relatively easy to do so. The only way to know for sure is for someone to get eyes-on and read the tail number off.

Incidentally isn't Air Force One technically the call sign of whatever the President happens to be flying on board? The converted 747 being what people consider the generic presidential aircraft...

Yes. Whenever POTUS flies on a USAF operated aircraft the callsign is AF1. Doesn't matter if it's a VC-25, C-32, C-17, C-130, if POTUS is on board it's AF1. If he's in a US Marine corps aircraft (such as the VH3 helicopters) then the call-sign is Marine1. And if he's on a US Navy Aircraft, its Navy1.

There are very rare exceptions. Trips into Iraq/Afghanistan to see the troops are usually disguised. On one recent trip the VC-25 used an ICAO code and callsign (Reach) more normally allocated to a C-17 transport planes. Trouble is, cover was blown when someone took a photo of it flying over northern England - Difficult to mistake a VC-25.   
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Will this help....
« Reply #32 on: 19 June 2021, 13:57:40 »

Interesting :y

So that C32 shown on FR24 could well have been El Presidente on his more usual aircraft...

It only showed as having departed Geneva (the from part being largely useless information), along with speed and altitude.

To add, been having a rummage...

I believe the aircraft shown on FR24 was actually 99-0003 operating SAM490 ;)

And looking at its flights earlier this week, whilst it probably wasn't Sippy Cups aircraft, it was probably in sight of it...
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Re: Will this help....
« Reply #33 on: 19 June 2021, 14:21:04 »

There was an unusual amount of aircraft flying over last weekend after the G7 had finished, enough to spike my curiosity and check on Flightradar, but there wasn't much on there... 
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LC0112G

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Re: Will this help....
« Reply #34 on: 19 June 2021, 14:36:37 »

There was an unusual amount of aircraft flying over last weekend after the G7 had finished, enough to spike my curiosity and check on Flightradar, but there wasn't much on there...

From memory....

2 x Japanese Airforce B777's (both seen OTT Yeovil  ;D)
1 x Korean Air Force B747
1 x USAF VC-25 "AF-1"
1 x USAF C-32A "SAM46"
4 x USMC V-22 Ospreys (operating out of Exeter)
3 x USMC KC-130's (operating out of Exeter)
2 x USMC VH-3's (operating out of Culdrose)
3 x RAF Chinooks (Culdrose)
3 x RN Wildcats (Culdrose)
2 x German Air Force A319's
1 x Italian Air Force A319
1 x Australian Air Force A330 (KC30)
3 x French Airforce Bizjets, plus 2 Casa235's and 2 Super Pumas
1 x South African Airforce Bizjet.
Few other civvy bits carrying various EU leaders.

Support in the few days leading up to and after the G7 was around 20 USAF C-17's into St Mawgan, and 4 into Culdrose (delivering and picking up the VH-3's).

There were also RAF Typhoons flying 8 hour CAP missions on several occasions, supported by RAF Voyager tankers, and a French AWACS.
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LC0112G

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Re: Will this help....
« Reply #35 on: 19 June 2021, 14:59:25 »

Interesting :y

So that C32 shown on FR24 could well have been El Presidente on his more usual aircraft...

It only showed as having departed Geneva (the from part being largely useless information), along with speed and altitude.

To add, been having a rummage...

I believe the aircraft shown on FR24 was actually 99-0003 operating SAM490 ;)

And looking at its flights earlier this week, whilst it probably wasn't Sippy Cups aircraft, it was probably in sight of it...

Looking back through my personal data...

AF1 departed Geneva around 20:45CET (19:45BST, 18:45Z)
GRIM99 departed Mildenhall around 20:45CET (19:45BST,18:45Z)
SAM18 departed Ramstein around 20:45CET (19:45BST, 18:45Z)
SAM46 departed Geneva around 20:50CET (19:50BST, 18:50Z)
SAM490 departed Geneva around 22:45CET (21:45BST, 20:45Z)

The ADSBexchange snapshot isn't mine, but I'd estimate it was taken around 20:45BST which is well before SAM490 departed Geneva. Not that it really matters but I suspect you were 2 hours late looking at Flightaware, and therefore mistook what you were seeing.
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Will this help....
« Reply #36 on: 19 June 2021, 17:12:13 »

At least one of the Japanese B777s was parked at Gatwick last Saturday.

They normally 'hide' the interesting stuff on the 170s, but as they're full of BA aircraft, they had to hide the Japanese 7777 in plain sight ;D
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Re: Will this help....
« Reply #37 on: 19 June 2021, 17:47:24 »

There was an unusual amount of aircraft flying over last weekend after the G7 had finished, enough to spike my curiosity and check on Flightradar, but there wasn't much on there...

From memory....

2 x Japanese Airforce B777's (both seen OTT Yeovil  ;D)
1 x Korean Air Force B747
1 x USAF VC-25 "AF-1"
1 x USAF C-32A "SAM46"
4 x USMC V-22 Ospreys (operating out of Exeter)
3 x USMC KC-130's (operating out of Exeter)
2 x USMC VH-3's (operating out of Culdrose)
3 x RAF Chinooks (Culdrose)
3 x RN Wildcats (Culdrose)
2 x German Air Force A319's
1 x Italian Air Force A319
1 x Australian Air Force A330 (KC30)
3 x French Airforce Bizjets, plus 2 Casa235's and 2 Super Pumas
1 x South African Airforce Bizjet.
Few other civvy bits carrying various EU leaders.

Support in the few days leading up to and after the G7 was around 20 USAF C-17's into St Mawgan, and 4 into Culdrose (delivering and picking up the VH-3's).

There were also RAF Typhoons flying 8 hour CAP missions on several occasions, supported by RAF Voyager tankers, and a French AWACS.

I wonder what the carbon footprint of that lot was?  ;D
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LC0112G

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Re: Will this help....
« Reply #38 on: 19 June 2021, 17:56:02 »

At least one of the Japanese B777s was parked at Gatwick last Saturday.

They normally 'hide' the interesting stuff on the 170s, but as they're full of BA aircraft, they had to hide the Japanese 7777 in plain sight ;D

Yes, the second Japanese flew LGW->NQY on Sunday afternoon to join the other one already there. Both left Sunday evening. One of them actually visited NQY 2 weeks before the G7. The assumption is this was carrying staff/press who needed to complete 7/14 days isolation in the UK before the G7 started.

The second German A319 flew Germany->Exeter, then orbited for 2 hours until Aunti Angie took off from NQY in the first A319, and then returned to Germany without landing. There were comments about the last German aircraft to hold over Exeter causing a lot of damage - in 1945  :D

The Ozzie went Brize->NQY->STN.
SAM18 went Brize->Ramstein.

Are you doing any aircraft towing/parking training? Might be an opening at Heathrow soon  ::)




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Re: Will this help....
« Reply #39 on: 19 June 2021, 21:59:10 »

Composite repairs will pay better :D
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