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[pete.h]

Does anyone know a good reason why manufacturers have gone back to element type oil filters as opposed to canister type ones .

Seems to me there are a few problems with them .

1)  there's more chance of getting dirt into your oil

2)  unscrupulous garages don't bother changing them( I've come across a few that have disintegrated they've been in that long)

3) they are generally more expensive than canister ones --why??

4)If they do fall apart all the bits get into your oilways ( came across a Vectra where the oil feed to the cams got blocked with the bits)


I can't think of much positive about them , can anyone else?

[Dazzler]

Errrrr........nope :-/

[Markie]

Production costs? Enviromental / disposal costs ? :-/

[Marks DTM Calib]

1) Nope, same chance!
2) A sad example of the state of the modern service operatives
3) No idea.....no good reason why!
4) Same chance as with a metal one!

The only down side is the price!

[Omegatoy]

as already stated they are cheaper to produce, more enviromentally friendly and as long as they are changed on the due mileage no problem,

[Kevin Wood]

The other drawback being that because the housing has a large socket head on it the average garage muppet will assume it needs to be done up like a hub nut, not being sufficiently literate to notice the torque setting on the lid.

.. so, like most parts of a car, they are fine, if you change them yourself and don't let the motor trade near them.

Kevin

[pete.h]

I am actually in the motor trade myself ,which is why I've come across these problems , but no offence taken , I agree that it is a big problem finding anyone who really knows what they are doing with cars nowadays.

I'm not trying to have a dig at anybody  , but merely trying to alert people to what I think are the pitfalls associated with element filters.

Whilst I can see the environmental advantages, it's just that in 30 years in the motor trade I haven't seen too many problems with canister filters , but since the re-introduction of element ones , I've seen a worrying increase.

[ians]

I notice in the yellow book that the retail price for the canister and element types are similar but the tc price for the element type is about 3x the canister.  Any idea why?

[Kevin Wood]

I am actually in the motor trade myself

Oops. No offence intended. It just seems these days that if you want a job done properly.....

I'm not trying to have a dig at anybody  , but merely trying to alert people to what I think are the pitfalls associated with element filters.

Whilst I can see the environmental advantages, it's just that in 30 years in the motor trade I haven't seen too many problems with canister filters , but since the re-introduction of element ones , I've seen a worrying increase.

I wonder how much of this is due to lack of familiarity leading to incorrect fitting rather than basic flaws in the design? Not that you can really go wrong fitting one. :-/

In addition, many canister filters are not very well made internally, IMHO, it's just that what's out of sight is out of mind...

I must admit I've had no problems with mine but it gets changed regularly and correctly torqued, so doesn't have the chance to sieze / corrode. I guess if following VX's 20K service intervals it might be a different story.

Maybe it's the extended service intervals these days that's contributed to the perceived increase in problems. An engine's probably going to survive 20k oil changes when it's new, but rack up a few miles, miss a few services, use nasty oil and maybe the filter will clog, causing it to collapse.

I suppose the price differential is probably down to the fact that huge numbers of canister filters get made, one size fits a wide range of vehicles and they are probably farmed out to 3rd party suppliers rather than being relatively rare and supplied by the OEM themselves.

Kevin

[TheBoy]

I am actually in the motor trade myself

Oops. No offence intended. It just seems these days that if you want a job done properly.....

I'm not trying to have a dig at anybody  , but merely trying to alert people to what I think are the pitfalls associated with element filters.

Whilst I can see the environmental advantages, it's just that in 30 years in the motor trade I haven't seen too many problems with canister filters , but since the re-introduction of element ones , I've seen a worrying increase.

I wonder how much of this is due to lack of familiarity leading to incorrect fitting rather than basic flaws in the design? Not that you can really go wrong fitting one. :-/

In addition, many canister filters are not very well made internally, IMHO, it's just that what's out of sight is out of mind...

I must admit I've had no problems with mine but it gets changed regularly and correctly torqued, so doesn't have the chance to sieze / corrode. I guess if following VX's 20K service intervals it might be a different story.

Maybe it's the extended service intervals these days that's contributed to the perceived increase in problems. An engine's probably going to survive 20k oil changes when it's new, but rack up a few miles, miss a few services, use nasty oil and maybe the filter will clog, causing it to collapse.

I suppose the price differential is probably down to the fact that huge numbers of canister filters get made, one size fits a wide range of vehicles and they are probably farmed out to 3rd party suppliers rather than being relatively rare and supplied by the OEM themselves.

Kevin

I had a problem with a canister type once.  It was a cheap nasty one that Ronald McBurger had when I did his oil for him.  Wet itself all over Marks DTM's driveway  

Now I know I fitted it right......

[pete.h]

I've had the odd problem with canister ones as well , usually to do with having been fitted for too long, but the problem seems to be that you can SEE if a new canister one has been fitted, but you can't with an element one , so some garages take advantage of this and don't fit them. I've had cars with supposed fmdsh and the filter falls to bits when it's taken out.
Trouble is it doesn't help the reputation of the motor trade in general, and I can quite see why you would say "don't let the motor trade near your car" , I wouldn't let half the garages I know near mine either !

On a slightly different tack, I had a 2004 Audi in the other day with 120000miles and fmdsh, but the fuel filter ,which is hidden under the big plastic cover on the engine, was nearly rusted away and had probably never been changed.

I think what I'm trying to say in a bit of a long winded way is that some garages think   "If the owner can't see it 's been changed we won't bother changing it "  , which can't be good.

[Omegatoy]

I've had the odd problem with canister ones as well , usually to do with having been fitted for too long, but the problem seems to be that you can SEE if a new canister one has been fitted, but you can't with an element one , so some garages take advantage of this and don't fit them. I've had cars with supposed fmdsh and the filter falls to bits when it's taken out.
Trouble is it doesn't help the reputation of the motor trade in general, and I can quite see why you would say "don't let the motor trade near your car" , I wouldn't let half the garages I know near mine either !

On a slightly different tack, I had a 2004 Audi in the other day with 120000miles and fmdsh, but the fuel filter ,which is hidden under the big plastic cover on the engine, was nearly rusted away and had probably never been changed.

I think what I'm trying to say in a bit of a long winded way is that some garages think   "If the owner can't see it 's been changed we won't bother changing it "  , which can't be good.

lol how weird is that!!! Got asked to sort out a passat 1.8 the other day as it was "sluggish" had full dealer history till the guy  bought it out here, get under car unbolt plastic sheild and find the original VAG fuel filter has never been changed, it had done 124K the guy is over the moon cos the car now gets up hills propely and starts first time every time instead of spluttering and dying !!

[pete.h]

There you go ! Soon fmdsh is gonna be a good reason NOT to buy a car .