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[STMO123]

Just been watching Bloomberg. rather stupid Yanks have spooked the markets big time. They will listen to what the automakers have to say and decide sometime in December.
But.... they will want to hear that they are going to bring forth more competetive, fuel efficient models and that the money will be used to re-tool their plants.
Have the rather idiots got any idea how much that would cost? The R&D that goes into a new model would swallow $25 billion, twice.
The mind boggles.

[Parts_Monkey]

Just been watching Bloomberg. rather stupid Yanks have spooked the markets big time. They will listen to what the automakers have to say and decide sometime in December.
But.... they will want to hear that they are going to bring forth more competetive, fuel efficient models and that the money will be used to re-tool their plants.
Have the rather idiots got any idea how much that would cost? The R&D that goes into a new model would swallow $25 billion, twice.
The mind boggles.

They need to do more badge engineering (e.g. a Golf is a Scirroco is an Octavia is a Leon is an A3 is a Beetle)

When America has tried it half the time they just switch the badges eg Plymouth/Chrysler/Dodge Neon

[albitz]

Whatever badge is on them the cars are still crap imo. Which is why its a different scenario in some respects to bailing out the financial industry.
The U.S. car industry was in its death throes before the financial meltdown.

[Parts_Monkey]

Whatever badge is on them the cars are still crap imo. Which is why its a different scenario in some respects to bailing out the financial industry.
The U.S. car industry was in its death throes before the financial meltdown.

Fair point.  we've had a couple of customer trade in big yank tank 4x4's and when I've sat in them I'm astonished at a)how low the quality is and b) that someone will pay £50,000 for an Escalade or Navigator when for the same money you can have a Range Rover Sport that is better in absolutely every single way.

The dashboards are made from the same plastic as my printer and the seats date from a winter sale at DFS in 1978.

[albitz]

  Nicely put.

[Parts_Monkey]

Honestly, I was sitting in a Voyager and it was like sitting on the softest sofa in the world which would be great for a sofa in a house but what good is it if your going round a corner.  They just don't grip you at all.

It just goes to show it's not just the chassis or the suspension that makes American cars useless outside of America,  it's anything that involves taking corners!

[Kevin Wood]

Whatever badge is on them the cars are still crap imo. Which is why its a different scenario in some respects to bailing out the financial industry.
The U.S. car industry was in its death throes before the financial meltdown.

Fair point.  we've had a couple of customer trade in big yank tank 4x4's and when I've sat in them I'm astonished at a)how low the quality is and b) that someone will pay £50,000 for an Escalade or Navigator when for the same money you can have a Range Rover Sport that is better in absolutely every single way.

The dashboards are made from the same plastic as my printer and the seats date from a winter sale at DFS in 1978.

That goes for every car Detroit make, it seems. Many times I've ended up with a hire car in the US and, from a distance it's looked vaguely like a european Ford / GM model that's acceptable, only to find it drives like a 1970's BL car. Then I've looked underneath and discovered why. Leaf springs, etc.   What are they doing on a modern car? Transverse mounted FWD V6/V8s with an auto box? How is that ever going to drive sensibly? You've just put 80% of the weight over, or even in front of, the front wheels.

Even the metal they make them from feels too thin, and the interior styling with all that fake stick-on wood.

Their customers have discovered the cars everyone outside the US drives now, so they're breaked, to put it mildly.

Kevin

[albitz]

when I went there in 2001, I was amazed how many european/japanese cars and how few U.S. cars I saw.
The politicians will probably have to bail them out to some degree in the short term,but in the longer term they will have to change radically or go the same way as the British auto industry.

[Ken T]

Whatever badge is on them the cars are still crap imo. Which is why its a different scenario in some respects to bailing out the financial industry.
The U.S. car industry was in its death throes before the financial meltdown.

Fair point.  we've had a couple of customer trade in big yank tank 4x4's and when I've sat in them I'm astonished at a)how low the quality is and b) that someone will pay £50,000 for an Escalade or Navigator when for the same money you can have a Range Rover Sport that is better in absolutely every single way.

The dashboards are made from the same plastic as my printer and the seats date from a winter sale at DFS in 1978.

That goes for every car Detroit make, it seems. Many times I've ended up with a hire car in the US and, from a distance it's looked vaguely like a european Ford / GM model that's acceptable, only to find it drives like a 1970's BL car. Then I've looked underneath and discovered why. Leaf springs, etc.   What are they doing on a modern car? Transverse mounted FWD V6/V8s with an auto box? How is that ever going to drive sensibly? You've just put 80% of the weight over, or even in front of, the front wheels.

Even the metal they make them from feels too thin, and the interior styling with all that fake stick-on wood.

Their customers have discovered the cars everyone outside the US drives now, so they're breaked, to put it mildly.

Kevin

Ah but roads in US are straight, and you can only do 55mph, so that will prob suit. Plus its got an American badge on it, so appeals to the nationalist side of true US citizens. However they are a dying breed so the imigrants buy toyotas. You can see the cycle happening over and over again. Businesses that don't evolve will die. Look at GEC. They made their money from cost plus contracts and an immense amount of paperwork that was all "essential" so was paid for.  When the time came to survive in the real world ..........

Ken

[Kevin Wood]

Ah but roads in US are straight, and you can only do 55mph, so that will prob suit. Plus its got an American badge on it, so appeals to the nationalist side of true US citizens. However they are a dying breed so the imigrants buy toyotas. You can see the cycle happening over and over again. Businesses that don't evolve will die. Look at GEC. They made their money from cost plus contracts and an immense amount of paperwork that was all "essential" so was paid for.  When the time came to survive in the real world ..........

Ken

Oops!   Speedo only went up to 85 MPH.   so I've no idea what I did do.

Not sure why it was geared to do 55MPH at about 1300 RPM and have no poke at all in top gear.

I think us and the yanks have totally different ideas as to what constitutes a good car.

Kevin

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Ah but roads in US are straight, and you can only do 55mph, so that will prob suit. Plus its got an American badge on it, so appeals to the nationalist side of true US citizens. However they are a dying breed so the imigrants buy toyotas. You can see the cycle happening over and over again. Businesses that don't evolve will die. Look at GEC. They made their money from cost plus contracts and an immense amount of paperwork that was all "essential" so was paid for.  When the time came to survive in the real world ..........

Ken

Oops!   Speedo only went up to 85 MPH.   so I've no idea what I did do.

Not sure why it was geared to do 55MPH at about 1300 RPM and have no poke at all in top gear.

I think us and the yanks have totally different ideas as to what constitutes a good car.

Kevin

In some States and on some roads, you can do as much as 75 mph

http://www.iihs.org/laws/SpeedLimits.aspx

and certainly I remember being in the wilds of Arizona in particular, driving following an American friend travelling at 70+mph. 8-) 8-) 8-)