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[Lizzie_Zoom]

/quote]

I can understand what you are getting at Zulu and want to  agree.  However, the cold facts are that we are part of the international community, and for our true defence we now rely greatly on the USA, as does the whole of Europe as we have all done since 1945.  This country since then has failed to keep an entirely independant military force, dependant on American satellite technology and nuclear hardware.  Foreign policy is harnessed with Nato and the United Nations, with no country, not even the great USA, being able to act independantly from all others i.e. as with Iraq, Afganistan and the Middle East.

As for the legal situation, the European Union are attempting to harminise all European law, with the European Court supreme.  The British could of course withdraw from this arrangement, but it could well mean less legal protection for the average citizen.

The progress of hundreds of years to reach a far fairer, although not perfect, world cannot and should not be reversed on some shaky belief in a past world. That 'past' in fact produced great hardship for the working class, poor welfare, diabolical education, and the constant risk of war, famine, and death.

It is only one hundred years ago when David Lloyd George and Winston Churchill argued in the House of Commons against the Conservatives for a greatly increased budget for social reforms for 1909.  The Conservatives, considering the Anglo-German naval arms race, wanted eight Dreadnought battleships; " we want eight, we can't wait", whilst Lloyd George and Churchill wanted it cut by at least two to release more funds to give social care to the poor.

Do we really want a Europe were each nation is fighting for a 'place in the sun' with expensive empires regardless of the consequences for its citizens?

In my opinion we should just go forward and work to gether for a greater Europe at peace with itself. 8-) 8-)

That 'past' in fact produced great hardship for the working class, poor welfare, diabolical education, and the constant risk of war, famine, and death

........and few lessons have been learnt Ms Zoom even with the might of this global movement

Do we really want a Europe were each nation is fighting for a 'place in the sun' with expensive empires regardless of the consequences for its citizens

....we should not, however, we should ensure that each and every one of our people come first.

In my opinion we should just go forward and work to gether for a greater Europe at peace with itself

....... I agree but we should be willing and able to do our own housekeeping

Lord, it's great that you're back online Ms Zoom 8-) 8-)

Thanks Zulu, and some great observations from you there!   Oh, for that perfect world that we all want, but somehow is just so difficult to achieve with the politicians all countries have!!!

[crazyjoetavola]

/quote]

I can understand what you are getting at Zulu and want to  agree.  However, the cold facts are that we are part of the international community, and for our true defence we now rely greatly on the USA, as does the whole of Europe as we have all done since 1945.  This country since then has failed to keep an entirely independant military force, dependant on American satellite technology and nuclear hardware.  Foreign policy is harnessed with Nato and the United Nations, with no country, not even the great USA, being able to act independantly from all others i.e. as with Iraq, Afganistan and the Middle East.

As for the legal situation, the European Union are attempting to harminise all European law, with the European Court supreme.  The British could of course withdraw from this arrangement, but it could well mean less legal protection for the average citizen.

The progress of hundreds of years to reach a far fairer, although not perfect, world cannot and should not be reversed on some shaky belief in a past world. That 'past' in fact produced great hardship for the working class, poor welfare, diabolical education, and the constant risk of war, famine, and death.

It is only one hundred years ago when David Lloyd George and Winston Churchill argued in the House of Commons against the Conservatives for a greatly increased budget for social reforms for 1909.  The Conservatives, considering the Anglo-German naval arms race, wanted eight Dreadnought battleships; " we want eight, we can't wait", whilst Lloyd George and Churchill wanted it cut by at least two to release more funds to give social care to the poor.

Do we really want a Europe were each nation is fighting for a 'place in the sun' with expensive empires regardless of the consequences for its citizens?

In my opinion we should just go forward and work to gether for a greater Europe at peace with itself. 8-) 8-)

That 'past' in fact produced great hardship for the working class, poor welfare, diabolical education, and the constant risk of war, famine, and death

........and few lessons have been learnt Ms Zoom even with the might of this global movement

Do we really want a Europe were each nation is fighting for a 'place in the sun' with expensive empires regardless of the consequences for its citizens

....we should not, however, we should ensure that each and every one of our people come first.

In my opinion we should just go forward and work to gether for a greater Europe at peace with itself

....... I agree but we should be willing and able to do our own housekeeping

Lord, it's great that you're back online Ms Zoom 8-) 8-)

Thanks Zulu, and some great observations from you there!   Oh, for that perfect world that we all want, but somehow is just so difficult to achieve with the politicians all countries have!!! [/quote

Amen to that

[HolyCount]

I am so pleaseed that Zulu is here -- often saying what I think, but putting it so much more eloquently than my addled brain can manage at the moment !

[crazyjoetavola]

I am so pleaseed that Zulu is here -- often saying what I think, but putting it so much more eloquently than my addled brain can manage at the moment !

No, no, no,  my Lord  it is I who should be thankful for your keen sense of justice and fair play - and for that, I kneel before you

[Martin_1962]

Interesting thread

[Darth Loo-knee]

Send the Buggars back 

[HolyCount]

I am so pleaseed that Zulu is here -- often saying what I think, but putting it so much more eloquently than my addled brain can manage at the moment !

No, no, no,  my Lord  it is I who should be thankful for your keen sense of justice and fair play - and for that, I kneel before you

It's in the genes 

[amigov6]

Ironic. I got a BNP leaflet through the door the other day. It was the first one i read before binning, (binned my polling card anyway) but i feel i must mention the
Polish. Out of 12 drivers 2 or 3 are poles (they come & go) but they are friendly, hard working, make the effort to integrate & claim nothing, all they want to do is work. I don't posess the factual knowledge to match some comments made but if my memory serves me well they fought hard along side us in WW2 so it ails me somewhat when ignorant folk knock 'em.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Ironic. I got a BNP leaflet through the door the other day. It was the first one i read before binning, (binned my polling card anyway) but i feel i must mention the
Polish. Out of 12 drivers 2 or 3 are poles (they come & go) but they are friendly, hard working, make the effort to integrate & claim nothing, all they want to do is work. I don't posess the factual knowledge to match some comments made but if my memory serves me well they fought hard along side us in WW2 so it ails me somewhat when ignorant folk knock 'em.

Yes Amigo, 141 Polish airmen took part in the Battle of Britain, with 29 being killed .  Brave men every one  of them! 8-) 8-) 8-)

[crazyjoetavola]

Ironic. I got a BNP leaflet through the door the other day. It was the first one i read before binning, (binned my polling card anyway) but i feel i must mention the
Polish. Out of 12 drivers 2 or 3 are poles (they come & go) but they are friendly, hard working, make the effort to integrate & claim nothing, all they want to do is work. I don't posess the factual knowledge to match some comments made but if my memory serves me well they fought hard along side us in WW2 so it ails me somewhat when ignorant folk knock 'em.

but if my memory serves me well they fought hard along side us in WW2 so it ails me somewhat when ignorant folk knock 'em.


Very well put Amigo

[HolyCount]

As has been mentioned on this and other threads earlier --- we should have nothing against the Poles, or indeed any other people who contribute -- as they do .. it's the bludgers we should get tough on !!!!

[KillerWatt]

but i feel i must mention the
Polish. Out of 12 drivers 2 or 3 are poles (they come & go) but they are friendly, hard working, make the effort to integrate & claim nothing, all they want to do is work.

Just don't let them wire your house up, unless you are tired of living.

[crazyjoetavola]

but i feel i must mention the
Polish. Out of 12 drivers 2 or 3 are poles (they come & go) but they are friendly, hard working, make the effort to integrate & claim nothing, all they want to do is work.

Just don't let them wire your house up, unless you are tired of living.

Quite frankly I'm shocked by that remark Killer

[AndyVXR300]

but i feel i must mention the
Polish. Out of 12 drivers 2 or 3 are poles (they come & go) but they are friendly, hard working, make the effort to integrate & claim nothing, all they want to do is work.

Just don't let them wire your house up, unless you are tired of living.

The polish are decent people as you say