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Author Topic: So much for TC!  (Read 4290 times)

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TheBoy

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Re: So much for TC!
« Reply #30 on: 27 March 2007, 11:23:14 »

Quote
Quote
Also, remember, its a safety feature, like ABS, that should never come on - doing so is driving beyond the cars capabilities in those conditions.

Well the car's capabilities aren't very high then ;)

If you want a quick launch a little wheel slip is good, as long as you don't let the traction completely go and can modulate the throttle it's far quicker than trying to launch with the TC. Personally it's got me into more trouble than it's got me out of, it just blindly and harshly cuts power and in some scenarios that's the worst thing to do. At least DSC/ESP or whatever actually straightens the car up for you, and in my experience is far less intrusive (although that may be partly down to with only having experienced DSC with a far more torquey engine that doesn't bog down the way the V6 does when the power is momentarily cut).

I often have it switched off, IMO it's actually safer that way!
I tried explaining that a small wheelspin was the best way to a policeman once ::)

The key to TC, is if it starts to cut in, feather the throttle at that point, not bury it harder.  I find TC does allow an element of wheelspin first on my MV6 and on my project 2.5 I had last summer (that had new shit tyres on).

I have to say, either you are on too much gas, or your tyres aren't up to the job (Pilots far from the best for spirited driving imho).
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bogit

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Re: So much for TC!
« Reply #31 on: 27 March 2007, 13:06:54 »

during one of my more stupid moments(trips awa from big vauxhalls)(looks lime it will have to be a late omega then a monaro next as ive run out of rwd vauxhalls now )
i had a renault(cough choke ) sefrane.

piss weak 12 v 3.0 litre front wheel drive , with serious understeer problems. lift throttle at any petrol station rounder bout and would head towards the nearest entrance fully sideways,that used to scare oncoming traffic lol
« Last Edit: 27 March 2007, 13:07:24 by bogit »
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TheBoy

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Re: So much for TC!
« Reply #32 on: 27 March 2007, 13:38:30 »

One of my old work colleagues keeps buying Safranes. Bloody awful cars. Sorry.
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Martin_1962

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Re: So much for TC!
« Reply #33 on: 27 March 2007, 15:55:40 »

Quote
One of my old work colleagues keeps buying Safranes. Bloody awful cars. Sorry.

People COULD say that about us - but we know better
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Paul M

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Re: So much for TC!
« Reply #34 on: 27 March 2007, 22:55:13 »

Quote
Quote
Quote
Also, remember, its a safety feature, like ABS, that should never come on - doing so is driving beyond the cars capabilities in those conditions.

Well the car's capabilities aren't very high then ;)

If you want a quick launch a little wheel slip is good, as long as you don't let the traction completely go and can modulate the throttle it's far quicker than trying to launch with the TC. Personally it's got me into more trouble than it's got me out of, it just blindly and harshly cuts power and in some scenarios that's the worst thing to do. At least DSC/ESP or whatever actually straightens the car up for you, and in my experience is far less intrusive (although that may be partly down to with only having experienced DSC with a far more torquey engine that doesn't bog down the way the V6 does when the power is momentarily cut).

I often have it switched off, IMO it's actually safer that way!
I tried explaining that a small wheelspin was the best way to a policeman once ::)

The key to TC, is if it starts to cut in, feather the throttle at that point, not bury it harder.  I find TC does allow an element of wheelspin first on my MV6 and on my project 2.5 I had last summer (that had new shit tyres on).

I have to say, either you are on too much gas, or your tyres aren't up to the job (Pilots far from the best for spirited driving imho).

You get a little bit of wheelspin at first, but after that it seems determined to kill things regardless of what you do with the throttle. Tyres aren't the issue, I can accelerate quicker with TC off than on, both with utter sh1te "Fortuna" tyres and with the Michelin Pilots. Personally I think the Pilots are a great tyre for high mileage use, they're not as good as Eagle F1s or Bridgestone S-02s (which are really hard to find now anyway) but neither do they need replaced after 5,000 miles of spirited driving. I don't mind using soft high performance tyres on my "proper" car as it won't be doing anywhere near as much mileage and is all about the fun factor, but it doesn't make sense on the Omega.

Personally I still think it's a waste of time on a reasonably well balanced, heavy RWD car that doesn't have all that much power. Unless you're deliberately provoking it or just being silly (or have sh1te tyres ::)) it's unlikely to break into power oversteer. In fact I find it's just as likely to understeer during normal driving, in which case TC isn't going to do squat anyway -- if they really cared about safety they could have fitted DSC which does help in almost all loss-of-control scenarios. It was certainly around in 1998 when other safety stuff like side airbags were introduced with the mini facelift.

IMO the only reason they fit TC is because it's almost free -- all the sensors are already there for the ABS, and the power reduction just needs some software changes in the ECU. The only extra thing is the rear wheel braking functionality which is integrated into the ABS unit AFAIK.
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TheBoy

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Re: So much for TC!
« Reply #35 on: 29 March 2007, 22:04:08 »

Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Also, remember, its a safety feature, like ABS, that should never come on - doing so is driving beyond the cars capabilities in those conditions.

Well the car's capabilities aren't very high then ;)

If you want a quick launch a little wheel slip is good, as long as you don't let the traction completely go and can modulate the throttle it's far quicker than trying to launch with the TC. Personally it's got me into more trouble than it's got me out of, it just blindly and harshly cuts power and in some scenarios that's the worst thing to do. At least DSC/ESP or whatever actually straightens the car up for you, and in my experience is far less intrusive (although that may be partly down to with only having experienced DSC with a far more torquey engine that doesn't bog down the way the V6 does when the power is momentarily cut).

I often have it switched off, IMO it's actually safer that way!
I tried explaining that a small wheelspin was the best way to a policeman once ::)

The key to TC, is if it starts to cut in, feather the throttle at that point, not bury it harder.  I find TC does allow an element of wheelspin first on my MV6 and on my project 2.5 I had last summer (that had new shit tyres on).

I have to say, either you are on too much gas, or your tyres aren't up to the job (Pilots far from the best for spirited driving imho).

You get a little bit of wheelspin at first, but after that it seems determined to kill things regardless of what you do with the throttle. Tyres aren't the issue, I can accelerate quicker with TC off than on, both with utter sh1te "Fortuna" tyres and with the Michelin Pilots. Personally I think the Pilots are a great tyre for high mileage use, they're not as good as Eagle F1s or Bridgestone S-02s (which are really hard to find now anyway) but neither do they need replaced after 5,000 miles of spirited driving. I don't mind using soft high performance tyres on my "proper" car as it won't be doing anywhere near as much mileage and is all about the fun factor, but it doesn't make sense on the Omega.

Personally I still think it's a waste of time on a reasonably well balanced, heavy RWD car that doesn't have all that much power. Unless you're deliberately provoking it or just being silly (or have sh1te tyres ::)) it's unlikely to break into power oversteer. In fact I find it's just as likely to understeer during normal driving, in which case TC isn't going to do squat anyway -- if they really cared about safety they could have fitted DSC which does help in almost all loss-of-control scenarios. It was certainly around in 1998 when other safety stuff like side airbags were introduced with the mini facelift.

IMO the only reason they fit TC is because it's almost free -- all the sensors are already there for the ABS, and the power reduction just needs some software changes in the ECU. The only extra thing is the rear wheel braking functionality which is integrated into the ABS unit AFAIK.
TC isn't there to get a decent launch.  Its their to stop inexperienced drivers getting their RWD to do a 180 spin in bad conditions...
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Paul M

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Re: So much for TC!
« Reply #36 on: 29 March 2007, 22:38:36 »

Quote
TC isn't there to get a decent launch.  Its their to stop inexperienced drivers getting their RWD to do a 180 spin in bad conditions...

LOL yeah I have no doubt of that! However it's not very good at that either IMO being that it will cut power when a rear wheel starts to slip under power. More "intelligent" stability control systems actually brake the best wheel(s) to get the car pointing straight again, even if that's a non-driven wheel.

I can see where TC may help out those not used to RWD and being silly with the gas, but personally I don't find much benefit in it at all.
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TheBoy

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Re: So much for TC!
« Reply #37 on: 29 March 2007, 22:40:57 »

Quote
Quote
TC isn't there to get a decent launch.  Its their to stop inexperienced drivers getting their RWD to do a 180 spin in bad conditions...

LOL yeah I have no doubt of that! However it's not very good at that either IMO being that it will cut power when a rear wheel starts to slip under power. More "intelligent" stability control systems actually brake the best wheel(s) to get the car pointing straight again, even if that's a non-driven wheel.

I can see where TC may help out those not used to RWD and being silly with the gas, but personally I don't find much benefit in it at all.
remember, it applies brake to spinning wheel first, then if you haven't stopped wheelspin, it cuts a pair of pots....
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hotel21

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Re: So much for TC!
« Reply #38 on: 29 March 2007, 22:47:29 »

Quote
Quote
Quote
TC isn't there to get a decent launch.  Its their to stop inexperienced drivers getting their RWD to do a 180 spin in bad conditions...

LOL yeah I have no doubt of that! However it's not very good at that either IMO being that it will cut power when a rear wheel starts to slip under power. More "intelligent" stability control systems actually brake the best wheel(s) to get the car pointing straight again, even if that's a non-driven wheel.

I can see where TC may help out those not used to RWD and being silly with the gas, but personally I don't find much benefit in it at all.
remember, it applies brake to spinning wheel first, then if you haven't stopped wheelspin, it cuts a pair of pots....

and was designed on a budget more than a couple of days before yesterday......    :o
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