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Author Topic: might be a daft question but...  (Read 1838 times)

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stuthespread

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might be a daft question but...
« on: 24 June 2010, 16:11:01 »

is it possible to fit a larger capacity fuel tank to the omega?if so how difficult a job would it be?if not is it possible to fit an extra tank without going down the road of LPG.
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Dishevelled Den

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Re: might be a daft question but...
« Reply #1 on: 24 June 2010, 16:25:14 »

Would it be reasonable to do so Stu? :-/ and when considering this, one could envisage some problems with insurance cover. :) :y
« Last Edit: 24 June 2010, 16:25:54 by Zulu77 »
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stuthespread

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Re: might be a daft question but...
« Reply #2 on: 24 June 2010, 16:35:07 »

the only reason i ask is because i,m taking the car outside the EU for an extensive period of time with frequent visits back to the UK.with the petrol prices less than half the cost of here i thought the extra range on the car would probably save me in excess of £100 per journey home on fuel.
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omegod

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Re: might be a daft question but...
« Reply #3 on: 24 June 2010, 16:47:19 »

I think a few jerry cans might be easier !
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Dishevelled Den

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Re: might be a daft question but...
« Reply #4 on: 24 June 2010, 16:52:07 »

Sounds like a reasonable enough idea Stu but perhaps the cost/potential difficulty of such a conversion would weigh against it.

I would imagine that your insurance would have to be re-organised anyway to cover you for driving outside the UK and EU but maybe an alteration to such a critical part of the vehicle - even if it were to be done professionally - would be too much of a risk for the underwriters.

On the practical side, the possible reduction in space available for storage after any such conversion may be problematic if you're travelling these extended distances.

Finally you may have to consider the implications of this conversion when you come to have the car MOT'd :y
« Last Edit: 24 June 2010, 17:10:33 by Zulu77 »
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stuthespread

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Re: might be a daft question but...
« Reply #5 on: 24 June 2010, 17:02:25 »

fair comment,may consider LPG conversion,may get it cheaper in poland or ukraine.
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Broomies Mate

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Re: might be a daft question but...
« Reply #6 on: 24 June 2010, 22:46:52 »

Not sure the MOT has any part to play TBH.

Provided the fuel tank (situated in the boot I guess) is not corroded, leaking or chucking petrol fumes out, then it wont matter.  I'd assume the 'auxiliary' tank would be plastic and secured to the boot floor, so corrosion is not an issue.

A crappy £2.99 petrol can from an Esso garage in the boot, fully laden with Unleaded wouldn't throw any warning signs to an MOT tester, and AFAIK, it has bugger all to do with them.

Insurance wise.... same tbh.  You haven't done anything to alter the cost, vulnerability for theft, location it is parked etc etc etc.  I don't see why they should need to know either.
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Re: might be a daft question but...
« Reply #7 on: 24 June 2010, 23:07:14 »

i found fuel same price in Europe, if not more expensive in places thanks to crappy exchange rate
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Dishevelled Den

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Re: might be a daft question but...
« Reply #8 on: 24 June 2010, 23:36:55 »

Quote
Not sure the MOT has any part to play TBH.

Provided the fuel tank (situated in the boot I guess) is not corroded, leaking or chucking petrol fumes out, then it wont matter.  I'd assume the 'auxiliary' tank would be plastic and secured to the boot floor, so corrosion is not an issue.

A crappy £2.99 petrol can from an Esso garage in the boot, fully laden with Unleaded wouldn't throw any warning signs to an MOT tester, and AFAIK, it has bugger all to do with them.

Insurance wise.... same tbh.  You haven't done anything to alter the cost, vulnerability for theft, location it is parked etc etc etc.  I don't see why they should need to know either.


Quote
Not sure the MOT has any part to play TBH.

Perhaps if it's a permanent/fixed alteration to the vehicle? :-/

Quote
I'd assume the 'auxiliary' tank would be plastic and secured to the boot floor

However, this cuts down on the space available for storage which may be an issue on such a long journey.

Quote
Insurance wise.... same tbh.  You haven't done anything to alter the cost, vulnerability for theft, location it is parked etc etc etc.  I don't see why they should need to know either

He would however have altered the original equipment spec of the vehicle and would be obliged to notify his insurance company of this.  If he didn't, and needed to submit a claim, it's quite possible that the claim would be disallowed because of this failure to notify.

In many cases people don't report changes of or alterations to the original specification of the insured vehicle and become aware - when it's too late - of the short-sighted nature of their actions when the insurance company challenges the claim.



Q15: What about converting an existing vehicle which is already registered?
A: It depends on the category of vehicle and how extensive the modification. For cars and light trucks, the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA) should be notified and they may require an inspection of the vehicle depending on the extent of the modifications.



From: http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/vehicles/sectionecwholevehicletype/faqs?page=1


The fuel System

Has no leaks and the fuel cap fastens and seals securely. The fuel cap will need to be opened so be sure the key is available.


From: http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/OwningAVehicle/Mot/DG_4022109

To comply with this I would suggest that the tester would have to be notified of the alterations so that the integrity of the additional tank and the means by which fuel is added to it, and sealed, could be examined.

The additional weight of the tank and fuel may also cause stability problems and cause unintentional wear on the standard suspension components.
« Last Edit: 25 June 2010, 00:54:18 by Zulu77 »
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tidla

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Re: might be a daft question but...
« Reply #9 on: 24 June 2010, 23:59:04 »

Quote
I think a few jerry cans might be easier !

second that, all getting a bit complicated.

is stopping for a fuel up and a coffee that bad? :)
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Broomies Mate

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Re: might be a daft question but...
« Reply #10 on: 25 June 2010, 01:20:00 »

Quote
Quote
Not sure the MOT has any part to play TBH.

Provided the fuel tank (situated in the boot I guess) is not corroded, leaking or chucking petrol fumes out, then it wont matter.  I'd assume the 'auxiliary' tank would be plastic and secured to the boot floor, so corrosion is not an issue.

A crappy £2.99 petrol can from an Esso garage in the boot, fully laden with Unleaded wouldn't throw any warning signs to an MOT tester, and AFAIK, it has bugger all to do with them.

Insurance wise.... same tbh.  You haven't done anything to alter the cost, vulnerability for theft, location it is parked etc etc etc.  I don't see why they should need to know either.


Quote
Not sure the MOT has any part to play TBH.

Perhaps if it's a permanent/fixed alteration to the vehicle? :-/

Quote
I'd assume the 'auxiliary' tank would be plastic and secured to the boot floor

However, this cuts down on the space available for storage which may be an issue on such a long journey.

Quote
Insurance wise.... same tbh.  You haven't done anything to alter the cost, vulnerability for theft, location it is parked etc etc etc.  I don't see why they should need to know either

He would however have altered the original equipment spec of the vehicle and would be obliged to notify his insurance company of this.  If he didn't, and needed to submit a claim, it's quite possible that the claim would be disallowed because of this failure to notify.

In many cases people don't report changes of or alterations to the original specification of the insured vehicle and become aware - when it's too late - of the short-sighted nature of their actions when the insurance company challenges the claim.



Q15: What about converting an existing vehicle which is already registered?
A: It depends on the category of vehicle and how extensive the modification. For cars and light trucks, the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA) should be notified and they may require an inspection of the vehicle depending on the extent of the modifications.



From: http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/vehicles/sectionecwholevehicletype/faqs?page=1


The fuel System

Has no leaks and the fuel cap fastens and seals securely. The fuel cap will need to be opened so be sure the key is available.


From: http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/OwningAVehicle/Mot/DG_4022109

To comply with this I would suggest that the tester would have to be notified of the alterations so that the integrity of the additional tank and the means by which fuel is added to it, and sealed, could be examined.

The additional weight of the tank and fuel may also cause stability problems and cause unintentional wear on the standard suspension components.

I cant be arsed separating the quotes, but.

Car was supplied as new with Firestone/Pirelli/Goodyear Tyres...... I choose to put a different make on..... Do I have to inform my insurance company?  NO.  Yet I am changing the original specification of the vehicle.  OH NOEZ!

The original head unit is rubbish, it gives poor quality sound, can I change it.  Yes I can.  Shall I tell my insurance company?  Nopers.  Why? Because they dont need to know, even though I'm changing the original specification of the car.  They wont pay for the replacement of the head unit, granted.

I picked my car up FROM NEW at the local Vx Dealership.  I cant drive it anywhere otherwise it will use fuel, thus rendering it different from when I picked it up. (Sorry Sir, I cant pay out on your claim because you have used petrol and your car is dirty).


Why does everyone make insurance companies out to be evil?  The two experiences I have had, have been amazing.  They have looked after me and made sure I got what I was entitled to, and more. 

NB: A Fuel filler cap doesn't need to be locked, just securely fitted.  Any moron and their cousin knows that!
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Dishevelled Den

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Re: might be a daft question but...
« Reply #11 on: 25 June 2010, 03:28:35 »

Quote


Quote
Not sure the MOT has any part to play TBH.

Perhaps if it's a permanent/fixed alteration to the vehicle? :-/

Quote
I'd assume the 'auxiliary' tank would be plastic and secured to the boot floor

However, this cuts down on the space available for storage which may be an issue on such a long journey.

Quote
Insurance wise.... same tbh.  You haven't done anything to alter the cost, vulnerability for theft, location it is parked etc etc etc.  I don't see why they should need to know either

He would however have altered the original equipment spec of the vehicle and would be obliged to notify his insurance company of this.  If he didn't, and needed to submit a claim, it's quite possible that the claim would be disallowed because of this failure to notify.

In many cases people don't report changes of or alterations to the original specification of the insured vehicle and become aware - when it's too late - of the short-sighted nature of their actions when the insurance company challenges the claim.



Q15: What about converting an existing vehicle which is already registered?
A: It depends on the category of vehicle and how extensive the modification. For cars and light trucks, the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA) should be notified and they may require an inspection of the vehicle depending on the extent of the modifications.



From: http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/vehicles/sectionecwholevehicletype/faqs?page=1


The fuel System

Has no leaks and the fuel cap fastens and seals securely. The fuel cap will need to be opened so be sure the key is available.


From: http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/OwningAVehicle/Mot/DG_4022109

To comply with this I would suggest that the tester would have to be notified of the alterations so that the integrity of the additional tank and the means by which fuel is added to it, and sealed, could be examined.

The additional weight of the tank and fuel may also cause stability problems and cause unintentional wear on the standard suspension components.

I cant be arsed separating the quotes, but.

Car was supplied as new with Firestone/Pirelli/Goodyear Tyres...... I choose to put a different make on..... Do I have to inform my insurance company?  NO.  Yet I am changing the original specification of the vehicle.  OH NOEZ!

The original head unit is rubbish, it gives poor quality sound, can I change it.  Yes I can.  Shall I tell my insurance company?  Nopers.  Why? Because they dont need to know, even though I'm changing the original specification of the car.  They wont pay for the replacement of the head unit, granted.

I picked my car up FROM NEW at the local Vx Dealership.  I cant drive it anywhere otherwise it will use fuel, thus rendering it different from when I picked it up. (Sorry Sir, I cant pay out on your claim because you have used petrol and your car is dirty).


Why does everyone make insurance companies out to be evil?  The two experiences I have had, have been amazing.  They have looked after me and made sure I got what I was entitled to, and more. 

NB: A Fuel filler cap doesn't need to be locked, just securely fitted.  Any moron and their cousin knows that![/quote]




Thank you for your considered reply BM. :y

Quote
Car was supplied as new with Firestone/Pirelli/Goodyear Tyres...... I choose to put a different make on

Is that a valid point?  I would imagine that you would be obliged to replace the tyres with ones of a similar specification - not necessarily make.  If you fitted tires of a different size on the same axle or mixed the types between cross-ply and radial or had tyres of a lower than recommended speed rating, you may well have problems with insurance as well as Construction and Use Regulations.

Quote
They wont pay for the replacement of the head unit, granted.

This point illustrates very well what happens when the insurance company is not informed of changes.

Quote
I picked my car up FROM NEW at the local Vx Dealership.  I cant drive it anywhere otherwise it will use fuel, thus rendering it different from when I picked it up.

In relation to the specific points made regarding the proposed installation by Stu surely this can't be a serious point?

Quote
Why does everyone make insurance companies out to be evil?

I can't see how you're suggesting that I was making insurance companies out to be evil.  I most certainly was not.  Insurance companies are in the business of making money by lessening risk - they do this in many ways one of which is contesting claims in these circumstances.  (Quite rightly in my view)

Quote
NB: A Fuel filler cap doesn't need to be locked, just securely fitted.  Any moron and their cousin knows that!

Well BM I'm far from being a moron and I don't have any cousins so I fail to see where the relevance of the locking element of your point comes into play. The instructions given to the MOT testers simply relate to ensuring that the means of filling the tank is topped by a securely fitting and well sealed cap – which, if it were of the locking variety, a key should be at hand - quite sensibly.

I'm disappointed that you chose to reply in this way BM which I feel to quite off-hand.  Was the tone of my posts or the style of writing unsatisfactory? 

I was simply making what I considered to be valid points to Stu in response to his question - obviously you thought differently :(
« Last Edit: 25 June 2010, 03:30:40 by Zulu77 »
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Kevin Wood

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Re: might be a daft question but...
« Reply #12 on: 25 June 2010, 10:00:19 »

The answer to the insurance question is that you are obliged to tell them of any facts that might materially affect the insured risk. I'd say adding an extra fuel tank certainly would! Doesn't mean they will charge you more.

Problem is, most insurance companies these days either recognise that it's a common modification (e.g. LPG) and rubber stamp it or just flat refuse to cover you when there isn't a button in the call centre corresponding to the mod. you've described. I think your modification would fall into the 2nd "'puter says no!" category.

You need to tell them, though or they will dump on you if you have to make a claim.

The change might even be notifiable to VOSA in which case you might need to get the car inspected. As soon as you bolt a tank to the car it becomes part of the fuel system so security is important, as it susceptibility to damage, freedom from leaks, venting of fuel vapour, etc.

You are right to point out that a couple of jerry cans in the boot won't attract such scrutiny but if you ever tried to return home on a ferry with a worthwhile (60 litres +?) amount of fuel in jerry cans in the boot and got pulled, well, good luck. ;)

Kevin
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stuthespread

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Re: might be a daft question but...
« Reply #13 on: 27 June 2010, 10:11:13 »

got tugged at the ukraine/poland border with 125 litres diesel in my van,took me 11 hrs and a lot of sweet talk to convince them i wasn't going to sell it,hence the question in the first place,decided against it now anyway,too much aggro.
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