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Author Topic: dont waste your money-tire tests-heavy pics  (Read 5094 times)

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bluey

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Re: dont waste your money-tire tests-heavy pics
« Reply #45 on: 01 March 2011, 00:11:57 »

Years back I got given the poison chalice of looking after a fleet of motors and vans.  Despite the vans, which were all the same make and model and having identical Goodyears on them, the people driving them had different opinions, which I at times got an earful about.  Half the time the main reason was they didn't grip like the proverbial turd to axminster as some of the drivers thought they shared the same DNA with Ayrton Senna, but the point was their comments were half the time biased down to them preferring another make 'cos their car had them or subjective or just a load of old cobblers because, inevitably, they weren't very good at driving. 

There is also the point that for some models the OEM spec, or the current updated version if they make it remains the best, or at least a perfectly good, choice to retain the original feel or specific characteristics.  Rolls-Royces and Avon Turbospeeds is a good example here.  So, while I would always look at a survey like the one cem pointed to, I just don't think it is wise to base your decision purely on what in reality is a set of numbers that have way too many unknown or unexplored factors behind them for the information to be definitive. 
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Psychoca

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Re: dont waste your money-tire tests-heavy pics
« Reply #46 on: 01 March 2011, 09:05:36 »

Reading through the information, the thing that stands out big time is that some tyres have good grip and traction, yet are placed lower in there rankings due to noise (admittedly road noise is tiring)...  Surely whilst tyre/road noise should be taken into account, that grip and handling characteristics should have a far greater weighting to them... 

Thank you for the info Cem, but, I personally feel that the weighting of the results is inaccurate.
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Kevin Wood

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Re: dont waste your money-tire tests-heavy pics
« Reply #47 on: 01 March 2011, 09:39:03 »

Quote
Reading through the information, the thing that stands out big time is that some tyres have good grip and traction, yet are placed lower in there rankings due to noise (admittedly road noise is tiring)...  Surely whilst tyre/road noise should be taken into account, that grip and handling characteristics should have a far greater weighting to them... 

Thank you for the info Cem, but, I personally feel that the weighting of the results is inaccurate.

The trade-off between noise and grip / handling qualities is the one I've noticed most myself when swapping tyres. Again, it comes down to personal preferences. I really dislike noisy tyres to the extent that my current choice has sacrificed some performance for quietness.

Others might not be prepared to do so, and put up with the noise. Some might be so gentle in their driving inputs that they don't notice any difference in performance at all and just rate the tyre as poor because it's noisy.

Not everybody is as perceptive behind the wheel. Some just feel uneasy about negotiating corners fast and slow down. They might not consider whether it's the tyre, tyre pressures, a suspension issue, their driving style or the road surface that has prompted them to do so. They may not even be conscious that they have slowed down.

Not everybody has a consistent driving style, so making comparisons is pointless. If you sometimes progressively enter a corner and sometimes snatch at the wheel your experiences are going to be variable before you start swapping tyres.

Not everybody will experiment with tyre pressure and suspension setup to ensure they get the best out of a tyre.

Not everybody buys tyres for the correct reason. I see the Toyo R888 is towards the bottom of the field. That's probably the grippiest, best handling tyre on the list in the right circumstances (in the summer, when it's got a bit of heat in it) but I pity the bloke who even rated it in the snow. I wouldn't put it on a car that gets in the winter let alone snow. :o It's got a mediocre but not poor 5.31 for tread wear, too. It would last about 3-4k of road use, IMHO, yet it gets similar wear ratings to some of the "granite formula" "I wish I could wear these rather things out" ditchfinders in the list.

As many have said, tyre reviews can be a useful guide. I find the numbers useless, though. I like to read written reviews of tyres and consider if I'm on the same wavelength as the guy writing it before considering whether to take the advice on board. ;)

Kevin
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aaronjb

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Re: dont waste your money-tire tests-heavy pics
« Reply #48 on: 01 March 2011, 09:54:21 »

Sooo.. we should all go out and buy Falkens, right?

*runs away from Chris*
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cem_devecioglu

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Re: dont waste your money-tire tests-heavy pics
« Reply #49 on: 01 March 2011, 09:56:14 »

ok.. orderwise their sorting may not reflect the truth as price , noise , handling has higly effected.. but...

but I checked their parameters, way of driving , tire size, car brand, road type etc.. imo this is a detailed type of survey, although we dont know their coefficients or parameters weight, I still find it very useful when you sort for dry, wet,snow grip values..because from many tests that I examined these values are very close to truth at least in order..

I agree that the values are not for a specific car which may effect the results but from my experience and real local survey on friends   ;D (as I'm the advisor) a good tire successful on a small car also gives good results for big cars.. rarely seen something unexpected.. however I choose tires depending on their driving style.. for example I never advice hard sports rubber for women drivers ;D

also in my country , road conditions never accept weak tires that they are proven to make baloons quickly.. :-/ (if you want brand name , definitely micheline -all submodels without exception :()


I have no doubt someone working behind -knows the job-, filtered all kinds of crap otherwise the results wouldnt be similiar and I would have discarded it at the first glance like I did for many surveys..

« Last Edit: 01 March 2011, 10:03:15 by cem_devecioglu »
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cem_devecioglu

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Re: dont waste your money-tire tests-heavy pics
« Reply #50 on: 01 March 2011, 09:57:12 »

Quote
Sooo.. we should all go out and buy Falkens, right?

*runs away from Chris*

 ;D ;D ;D ;D

when I posted the list and Kevin mentioned that it was on the first page I was  :o :o ;D
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Kevin Wood

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Re: dont waste your money-tire tests-heavy pics
« Reply #51 on: 01 March 2011, 09:59:06 »

I don't think anyone's saying it's not useful, Cem (although I might have given that impression :-[).

It's just that if you take the tyre from the top of the list and put it on an Omega excluding all other sources of advice you might be disappointed. ;)

Kevin
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cem_devecioglu

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Re: dont waste your money-tire tests-heavy pics
« Reply #52 on: 01 March 2011, 10:16:35 »

Quote
I don't think anyone's saying it's not useful, Cem (although I might have given that impression :-[).

It's just that if you take the tyre from the top of the list and put it on an Omega excluding all other sources of advice you might be disappointed. ;)

Kevin

like Fa..Fa.. Fa.. :-X ;D
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feeutfo

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Re: dont waste your money-tire tests-heavy pics
« Reply #53 on: 01 March 2011, 10:18:08 »

Quote
Sooo.. we should all go out and buy Falkens, right?

*runs away from Chris*
If the passenger is buying, yes.  ;D very compliant, quiet, comfy ride... from the passenger seat.  :y

Driver wont be so keen when they wear  though.  >:(

Fairly clear whats considered a good tyre in the test when the harder 912 is rated higher than the softer and slightly better handling 452(?)  :(

Personally suspect that road noise and directional stability are a compromise tyre makers have to juggle with. Extremes of the scale IME are...
Falken 912(quiet but unstable on the omega)
Dunlop Sport maxx tt/sp9000 very stable planted feel, even more so the sc3. But considerably noisier than F F Falkens.
« Last Edit: 01 March 2011, 10:23:32 by chrisgixer »
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cem_devecioglu

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Re: dont waste your money-tire tests-heavy pics
« Reply #54 on: 01 March 2011, 18:50:20 »

from subaru sti car forum:

Australia 2010 tyre test (car 2011 subaru sti ) results


1) Toyo Proxes R1R
2) Bridgestone Adrenaline Potenza 001
3) Toyo Proxes T1
4) Dunlop SP Sport Maxx TT
5) goodyear Eagle F1
6) Continental Contisportcontacts
7) Maxis Victra I-PRO

Semi Slicks

8) Toyo Proxes R888
9) Dunlop Direzza 03G

Tests included Slalom, dry brake,wet brake, road loop, skidpan & wear.

Top 3 tyreswere:

1) Goodyear  Eagle F1
2) Toyo Proxes R1R
3) Bridgestone Adrenaline Potenza

so verifies the results from the link I shared.. if you sort the columns by dry,wet,curve stability you will see those tires are at the top with the exception of Maxis and Goodyear.. ::) ;)

so I prepared my top 4..

Bridgestone Potenza s001
Toyo R1R
Vredestein Ultrac Cento
Nokian H (good for rain especially)

I omit Eagle F1 Asymmetric as its not found on small sizes..
« Last Edit: 01 March 2011, 18:54:47 by cem_devecioglu »
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