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[Rods2]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/22/business/apple-america-and-a-squeezed-middle-class.html?_r=3&ref=general&src=me&pagewanted=all

Very interesting article on how the whole manufacturing and supply infrastructure is so advanced in Asia compared with USA and Europe.

It puts into prospective, the EU and UK drive on workers rights like male maternity rights, equality laws and family / work life balance etc. I suspect with these drive up industry costs political programs, many more people are going to have a much improved family life where they get to spend 24 hours a day with their families. 

We might not like the financial services industry much, but London is the worlds leading global financial centre and Cameron was right to use the veto to protect what is becoming an increasing vital industry for this country and to try and get more Chinese business. As apart from that and some very specialized centres of engineering excellence (world class) like Rolls Royce aero engines, F1 and auto engineering design, Arm semiconductors I can't see too much on the horizon.

We are still world class in software engineering, but that is also in decline in terms of the UK's global market share and will continue to do so, shortages of engineers and there are cheaper better places with many available high quality engineers. Fastest growing countries for IT and software development in Europe are in the Eastern European countries.

How is Europe and particularly the UK going to turn this around?

[mantahatch]

There is no way the western world can compete with that. The problems will surface when the people of the west cannot afford to buy these products.
Then we will see apples and others share prices nose dive. I suspect it will end up like the dotcom businesses of a few years ago.

I could rant on but will leave it there.

[Johnny English]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/22/business/apple-america-and-a-squeezed-middle-class.html?_r=3&ref=general&src=me&pagewanted=all

Very interesting article on how the whole manufacturing and supply infrastructure is so advanced in Asia compared with USA and Europe.

It puts into prospective, the EU and UK drive on workers rights like male maternity rights, equality laws and family / work life balance etc. I suspect with these drive up industry costs political programs, many more people are going to have a much improved family life where they get to spend 24 hours a day with their families. 

We might not like the financial services industry much, but London is the worlds leading global financial centre and Cameron was right to use the veto to protect what is becoming an increasing vital industry for this country and to try and get more Chinese business. As apart from that and some very specialized centres of engineering excellence (world class) like Rolls Royce aero engines, F1 and auto engineering design, Arm semiconductors I can't see too much on the horizon.

We are still world class in software engineering, but that is also in decline in terms of the UK's global market share and will continue to do so, shortages of engineers and there are cheaper better places with many available high quality engineers. Fastest growing countries for IT and software development in Europe are in the Eastern European countries.

How is Europe and particularly the UK going to turn this around?

Beside the financial background there is also a social context of the question namely the unit of society is the person/individual on the West but family on the East where nobody interested in human rights till it's beneficial for family.

[cem_devecioglu]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/22/business/apple-america-and-a-squeezed-middle-class.html?_r=3&ref=general&src=me&pagewanted=all

Very interesting article on how the whole manufacturing and supply infrastructure is so advanced in Asia compared with USA and Europe.

It puts into prospective, the EU and UK drive on workers rights like male maternity rights, equality laws and family / work life balance etc. I suspect with these drive up industry costs political programs, many more people are going to have a much improved family life where they get to spend 24 hours a day with their families. 

We might not like the financial services industry much, but London is the worlds leading global financial centre and Cameron was right to use the veto to protect what is becoming an increasing vital industry for this country and to try and get more Chinese business. As apart from that and some very specialized centres of engineering excellence (world class) like Rolls Royce aero engines, F1 and auto engineering design, Arm semiconductors I can't see too much on the horizon.

We are still world class in software engineering, but that is also in decline in terms of the UK's global market share and will continue to do so, shortages of engineers and there are cheaper better places with many available high quality engineers. Fastest growing countries for IT and software development in Europe are in the Eastern European countries.

How is Europe and particularly the UK going to turn this around?

although interesting , its not a surprise..people in developed countries will continue to loose their jobs until they wake up and stop the profit madness.. however, I really doubt the so called "democratic" system will permit that.. its the first problem that must be solved..
 
bosses, if they were left with their ambitions, they will never give up for their profit unless community apply some laws stopping them..  and the mighty US president cant do anything to bring those jobs back  

[cem_devecioglu]

"A foreman immediately roused 8,000 workers inside the company’s dormitories, according to the executive. Each employee was given a biscuit and a cup of tea, guided to a workstation and within half an hour started a 12-hour shift fitting glass screens into beveled frames. Within 96 hours, the plant was producing over 10,000 iPhones a day. "
 
apparently that could be applied in UK in the 19th century at the beginning of industrial revolution where laws were very loose, but not now..
 
“The speed and flexibility is breathtaking,” the executive said. “There’s no American plant that can match that.”
 
its a big lie , and the lies will never end
 
 "Though Americans are among the most educated workers in the world, the nation has stopped training enough people in the mid-level skills that factories need, executives say. "
 
and thats another obvious lie.. probably those asians are trained in their dreams
 

[feeutfo]

Is this news? Been going on for the last god knows how long. Our living standards have been uncompetitive for employers for years. The balance is evening out within Europe, from what we hear, but will take much longer for poorer countries to catch up.

Manufacturing is Global. We are paying the price for our wealth as a country, such as it is, and is why global industry needs to move forward as a group, rather than individual countries surging ahead. There is always a cheaper Market for employment somewhere, and with the promise of wealth, will learn the skills in double quick time and no mistake.

As a work force we need to get over the "divine right" mentality to our standard of  living, or face loosing work to foreign markets. Difficult, but there we are... 

[Varche]

Roman Empire.

All that will happen is the movers and shakers will gravitate to different parts of the world.

The drones will of course remain.

I am surprised no one has mentioned Moral Capitalism makes I larf.

[Johnny English]

"A foreman immediately roused 8,000 workers inside the company’s dormitories, according to the executive. Each employee was given a biscuit and a cup of tea, guided to a workstation and within half an hour started a 12-hour shift fitting glass screens into beveled frames. Within 96 hours, the plant was producing over 10,000 iPhones a day. "
 
apparently that could be applied in UK in the 19th century at the beginning of industrial revolution where laws were very loose, but not now..
 
“The speed and flexibility is breathtaking,” the executive said. “There’s no American plant that can match that.”
 
its a big lie , and the lies will never end
 
 "Though Americans are among the most educated workers in the world, the nation has stopped training enough people in the mid-level skills that factories need, executives say. "
 
and thats another obvious lie.. probably those asians are trained in their dreams
 

Haha I must laugh. I'd been working with yankees for six month at an exploration in Hungary they did their own job not worse and not better than others but must be said a lot of guys among them didn't know where they were actually exactly. Not just Hungary where was but generally Europe, too !  Well educated yankee bullsh*t !  I had been learning for 3 years to get a simple electrician basic knowledge + 2yrs a technician + 6 month for explosion proof/poisonous gas traning though they had to go through a fast 6 month long education and done !

[Johnny English]

Is this news? Been going on for the last god knows how long. Our living standards have been uncompetitive for employers for years. The balance is evening out within Europe, from what we hear, but will take much longer for poorer countries to catch up.

Manufacturing is Global. We are paying the price for our wealth as a country, such as it is, and is why global industry needs to move forward as a group, rather than individual countries surging ahead. There is always a cheaper Market for employment somewhere, and with the promise of wealth, will learn the skills in double quick time and no mistake.

As a work force we need to get over the "divine right" mentality to our standard of  living, or face loosing work to foreign markets. Difficult, but there we are... 

Oh yes only the skills that's why just half time is needed. I ask where is general education of the world or other countries/cultures? I'm sure it is so important as professional skill!

[Rods2]

I don't know what schooling is like in Turkey, but in this country and America, it is cool to be lazy and disruptive with probably 20-50%, depending upon the school following this route. Then when they leave school they have a bad attitude to work, are pretty much illiterate and innumerate and the world owes them a living. Hence in the UK, employers prefer to employ young people from abroad with better basic skills, that speak better English, can read and write and do basic maths and will work hard to earn their money. That is why we have 20% youth unemployment in the UK and this will get worse as more young people are leaving countries like Ireland, Greece and Spain to work in the UK. 

The breakless youngsters, then become another generation relying on the social system for all their needs, if your a girl the way to win the social security jackpot is then to have a child or three, all with different fathers, none of whom contribute anything to the children's upkeep. Free housing, no tax to pay, reasonable money from the Government.

In Asian schools there is a lot of competition to be top of the class and it is actively encouraged, along with working hard. In the UK the socialist mantra in schools are that there MUST be NO competition.  At my local primary school it gets the worst exam results in the area including our local large town which has areas of real social deprivation as the headmistress is more interesting in gender equality than providing life skills like reading and writing, so its shepards pie one week for lunch, the next week it is shepardess pie!!!!    I kid you not, and don't mention manhole covers, they are worker access points!!!!  I won't mention her personal habits, but she buys all her furniture from Ikea, they don't use screws, it all tongue and groove.

I agree working conditions are poor in Asian countries, but that is the challenge for Western society. Local high skilled jobs like doctors, nurses, manual skilled jobs like builders, plumbers, electricians and low skilled jobs like catering and shop work will still be required as these things can't be performed in Asia.

At the other end of the scale highly skilled engineers, scientists and engineering technicians are required, where we have long history of world class innovation and invention, but they are in perpetual short supply in the UK, which means that these jobs either go to people from abroad or research labs etc. are gradually moving overseas. A good example is that Barclays' main European data processing centre is now in Kiev Ukraine. Cheaper and there is a good supply of IT technicians.

[cem_devecioglu]

I don't know what schooling is like in Turkey,
 
until the beginning of 2000, half of universities were really high in standards..especially which educates engineers (for example my school, Middle East Technical University founded (most of it) by Americans in 1960) , doctors (Bosphorus University, Hacettepe University) and many others..Also govts spend serious money on them (all public schools)..   
But you have to enter a 2 phase exam and be in the successful 5% of million people who enter the exams every year..
Other schools were still avg compared to standards.. however after 2000 some politics change and universities start to pop up everywhere like mushrooms   and after religious govts also start to play with th exam system and some other bad stories follow
 
 
also there are still good public colleges that accept you with similiar exams..  however I cant say the same for private schools..
 
 but in this country and America, it is cool to be lazy and disruptive with probably 20-50%, depending upon the school following this route. Then when they leave school they have a bad attitude to work, are pretty much illiterate and innumerate and the world owes them a living.
 
system problem imo.. and I bet if Brits really want to change it, it wont take long time..
 
 Hence in the UK, employers prefer to employ young people
 
= lower salary, lower demands
 
from abroad
 
=extra low salary , extra low demands
 
 with better basic skills, that speak better English, can read and write and do basic maths and will work hard to earn their money. That is why we have 20% youth unemployment in the UK and this will get worse as more young people are leaving countries like Ireland, Greece and Spain to work in the UK. 

The breakless youngsters, then become another generation relying on the social system for all their needs, if your a girl the way to win the social security jackpot is then to have a child or three, all with different fathers, none of whom contribute anything to the children's upkeep. Free housing, no tax to pay, reasonable money from the Government.
 
any woman who try this here will find herself in a bordel I'm afraid

In Asian schools there is a lot of competition to be top of the class and it is actively encouraged, along with working hard.
In the UK the socialist mantra in schools

 
although I'm very pleased with that sentence, its hard for me to believe that in a country like UK (father of capitalist system) this can exist.. 
 
are that there MUST be NO competition.  At my local primary school it gets the worst exam results in the area including our local large town which has areas of real social deprivation as the headmistress is more interesting in gender equality than providing life skills like reading and writing, so its shepards pie one week for lunch, the next week it is shepardess pie!!!!    I kid you not, and don't mention manhole covers, they are worker access points!!!!  I won't mention her personal habits, but she buys all her furniture from Ikea, they don't use screws, it all tongue and groove.

from a point of view what you tell makes sense as the bosses of system outsource the labour.. so dont need expensive labour and dont care for education (for middle classes) that much..
 
but Cambridge, Oxford is still there.. however they belong to high classes..

I agree working conditions are poor in Asian countries, but that is the challenge for Western society. Local high skilled jobs like doctors, nurses, manual skilled jobs like builders, plumbers, electricians and low skilled jobs like catering and shop work will still be required as these things can't be performed in Asia.

At the other end of the scale highly skilled engineers, scientists and engineering technicians are required, where we have long history of world class innovation and invention, but they are in perpetual short supply in the UK, which means that these jobs either go to people from abroad or research labs etc. are gradually moving overseas. A good example is that Barclays' main European data processing centre is now in Kiev Ukraine. Cheaper and there is a good supply of IT technicians.