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[Johnny English]

The anniversary of Versailles peace contract is today. I intentionally don't use the word "agreement" as it was not that. The first Versailles - so called - peace contract was such a gross injustice that it compulsorily led straight to the II. World War. Beside other powers Hungary and Germany as looser halfs took part in the war that was closed an old-new Versailles contract, wich was as incorrect as the first one. Hungary lost the 75% of her area and population. Today more than 4 million Hungarians live out of border without they had been moving. Nothing shows better the incompetency of winners than those countries, which were created artificially after the "peace contract" such as Czechoslovakia or Yugoslavia already not exist. We all remember well the Yugoslavian crisis not too long ago, which was caused by this as well as pushed different culture and attitude nations among the same borders. It's happened in Czechoslovakia as well where Czech and Slovakian people could arrange this conflict quite peaceful way. Historical-Hungary was living for 1000yrs and kept the right, order and peace above different nations though but Hungarians were the majority all along. Wilson talked about the authonomy of nations at the end of I.WW and regarded to Wilson European winner powers created a lot of multicultural countries or otherwise called crisis-cores (Romania,Yugoslavia,Czechoslovakia) instead of one (Great.Hungary), wich would have been much controlled. Many thanks to French most incopetent generals for instance Vix or Clemanceau and others who weren't able to live with the smallest cricism for them. These are really painful stuffs for me but I feel much better that could write about them. Thanks mates for reading :      Laszlo

[pscocoa]

There were many current day consequences arising from this. We need to look at the other specific Treaties at the time - Treaty of Saint Germain (Austria partition), Treaty of Trianon (Hungary partition), Treaty of Neuilly (Bulgaria) and Treaty of Sevres (splitting of Turkish empire).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Trianon

At the end of the day wars produce many mistakes and unintended outcomes. We should try to avoid them. In the Treaty of Sevres ~I think UK ended up with Palestine, Iraq and others - enough said.

[Rods2]

I seem to remember that quite a few British politicians and Generals were critical of the harsh terms imposed especially by the French, including our Prime Minister David Lloyd-George. The US like the British did not want to cripple Germany as they were before WW1 an important trading partner, which they wanted to resume. Britain and the US also had no territory ambitions in mainland Europe.

Whereas, the French were determined to impose a settlement that made them the leading European nation by imposing French hegemony on mainland Europe (nothing changes in their aims!) and they consistently called for the harshest terms and hence sowed the seeds of WWII. Which is why Hitler made them sign the peace treaty that created Vichy France, in 1940, in the same carriage at the same place that the German surrender had occurred at the end of WW1. 

This is what the famous British economist John Maynard Keynes had to say about the French position:

"So far as possible, therefore, it was the policy of France to set the clock back and undo what, since 1870, the progress of Germany had accomplished. By loss of territory and other measures her population was to be curtailed; but chiefly the economic system, upon which the depended for her new strength, the vast fabric built upon iron, coal, and transport must be destroyed. If France could seize, even in part, what Germany was compelled to drop, the inequality of strength between the two rivals for European hegemony might be remedied for generations."

Vienna was a the capital of the Austrian-Hungarian empire and the most cosmopolitan in Europe up to 1914. It is now a shadow of what it was. Which shows the effect that losing an empire can have, with never any recovery to where they were. The same fate awaits Brussels when the Euro and the EU collapse. I just hope it doesn't lead to another European war and if it does that the US and UK sit this one out and let the Germans, French, Italians, Greeks and Spanish get on with it.

I think when the Euro and EU collapse, then it will be German hegemony that rules western mainland Europe due to having the biggest population and most successful economy. Ironically, the Euro which was insisted upon by France and imposed on Germany to allow the east-west reunification will probably turn out to have done the exact opposite, where Germany and their economy have been the main country to benefit from the Euro from 2005 onwards.

[Rods2]

Talking about the wrong treaty as we call the treaty with Germany the Treaty of Versailles and the treaty with Hungary the Treaty of Trianon. 

The British and French were the main parties that imposed these borders on Hungary. The treaties that pscocoa has mentioned have caused many unintended consequences.

[cem_devecioglu]

The anniversary of Versailles peace contract is today. I intentionally don't use the word "agreement" as it was not that. The first Versailles - so called - peace contract was such a gross injustice that it compulsorily led straight to the II. World War. Beside other powers Hungary and Germany as looser halfs took part in the war that was closed an old-new Versailles contract, wich was as incorrect as the first one. Hungary lost the 75% of her area and population. Today more than 4 million Hungarians live out of border without they had been moving. Nothing shows better the incompetency of winners than those countries, which were created artificially after the "peace contract" such as Czechoslovakia or Yugoslavia already not exist. We all remember well the Yugoslavian crisis not too long ago, which was caused by this as well as pushed different culture and attitude nations among the same borders. It's happened in Czechoslovakia as well where Czech and Slovakian people could arrange this conflict quite peaceful way. Historical-Hungary was living for 1000yrs and kept the right, order and peace above different nations though but Hungarians were the majority all along. Wilson talked about the authonomy of nations at the end of I.WW and regarded to Wilson European winner powers created a lot of multicultural countries or otherwise called crisis-cores (Romania,Yugoslavia,Czechoslovakia) instead of one (Great.Hungary), wich would have been much controlled. Many thanks to French most incopetent generals for instance Vix or Clemanceau and others who weren't able to live with the smallest cricism for them. These are really painful stuffs for me but I feel much better that could write about them. Thanks mates for reading :      Laszlo

Laszlo,
 
I know Versailles treaty was not fair.. and at the end millions of men/women and children paid with their lifes..
 
however those events also cause the collapse of Ottoman Empire which many of my citizens regret although I'm happy with it..
 
which a new modern secular republic is formed .. although nowadays some are trying to reverse the history..
 
besides today the problems in middle east still continues (stems from history) and if you look at the map you will see the mistake just at a glance on the borders drawn by the ruler.. and still empires insist on their petrol shares and continues their war/spy games..
 
anyway ,all empires based upon exploitation/wars/power will end one day, sooner or later.. and thats inevitable.. either this way or that way..
 
 
 

[OOMV6]

Talking about the wrong treaty as we call the treaty with Germany the Treaty of Versailles and the treaty with Hungary the Treaty of Trianon. 

The British and French were the main parties that imposed these borders on Hungary. The treaties that pscocoa has mentioned have caused many unintended consequences.

I don't undertstand your statement, highlighted. Waht do you mean, wrong treaty?

[cem_devecioglu]

Talking about the wrong treaty as we call the treaty with Germany the Treaty of Versailles and the treaty with Hungary the Treaty of Trianon. 

The British and French were the main parties that imposed these borders on Hungary. The treaties that pscocoa has mentioned have caused many unintended consequences.

Rods , different names and times of treaties not important imo .. as they are a part of the whole action.. we are not historians anyway

[Rods2]

Talking about the wrong treaty as we call the treaty with Germany the Treaty of Versailles and the treaty with Hungary the Treaty of Trianon. 

The British and French were the main parties that imposed these borders on Hungary. The treaties that pscocoa has mentioned have caused many unintended consequences.

I don't undertstand your statement, highlighted. Waht do you mean, wrong treaty?

At the end of WWI there were several treaties signed at different times in different places. The Treaty of Versailles signed on the 28th June 1919 formally ended the war between the Allies and Germany. Fighting had stopped with a cease fire on 11th November 1918.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Versailles

The Treaty of Neuilly settled the Bulgarian borders and war repatriations and was signed on the 27th November 1919.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Neuilly-sur-Seine

The Treaty of St Germain formally ended hostilities between Austria and the Allies and defined the country's new borders and what war repatriations they had to pay and was signed on 10th September 1919.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Saint-Germain-en-Laye_(1919)

Treaty of Trianon formally ended hostilities between Hungary and the Allies on the 4th June 1920. British and French dictated borders where the US wanted self determination in a free plebiscite. I presume this would have meant a much  bigger Hungarian state which would have threatened French hegemony.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Trianon

And finally there was the settlement of the Ottoman Empire (Turkey) with the Middle Eastern Territory either controlled or under the influence of the British and the French, which included the British controlling Iraqi oil. This was the Treaty of Sevres and was signed on the 10th August 1920.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_S%C3%A8vres

What Laszlo was remembering was the anniversary of the Treaty of Trianon and the effect it has had on Hungary for the last 92 years.

[Johnny English]

Treaty of Trianon formally ended hostilities between Hungary and the Allies on the 4th June 1920. British and French dictated borders where the US wanted self determination in a free plebiscite. I presume this would have meant a much  bigger Hungarian state which would have threatened French hegemony.

Correct! 


Well, I was a bit afraid of your comments guys but glad that I could take enough braveness to write about it. You are quite well informed although the most of informations were strongly filtered by the new countries around Hungary such Czechoslovakia as Romania or Yugoslavia and theirs supporter French. You know nothing about athrocity against Hungarian people who wanted to hold own language, culture or religion but they couldn't do in spite Trianon Treaty guaranteed it. Nothing is known about local authonomies that guaranteed for the Hun minorities but never came to real. I must say that to loose areas not so painful as loose more millions of Hun brothers who are still living out of borders and have to struggle for free language using day by day today either! Nothing known about thousands of extinguished Hun cemeteries that the presence of ours not to be proven evermore ! How can be a member of the EU Slovakia where you live as a Slovakian citizen but you are Hun and want to get Hun citizenship as well your Slovakian citizenship is taken by the state at once? It's comic that more original Slovak lose the citizenship than Hun haha...but the legislation is about to concentrate this law for the Hun only .    No sample all the civilised world for this...Or for instace one week ago happened that a wellknown and respected Hun writer re-bury was organised in Transsylvania as his own testament and Romanian authorities refused this act as it's not actual question for them. I do ask : whether they must fear for a symbolic ceremony? No of course but this act doesn't suit to the Hun cemeteries related policy of theirs. I could continue it endlessly but I don't want you to be tired by my crying so I say again : thx for patience and reading guys ! 

[Rods2]

Ukraine also had a very bad 20th Century with about 20 million killed in the deliberate Soviet famines of 1921 and 1932-33 due to resistance to farm collectivization and World War II when the Germans considered them subhumans so there was mass slaughter by the German army and the Russians who used them as cannon fodder, where Stalin wanted as many dead as possible, while fighting the Nazis because of Ukraine nationalism.

My wife's family only survived in 1932-33 due to their being only two children (an unusually small family at that time) and they kept bees and had several cherry trees, they survived on a diet of honey and cherry tree leaves. All their normal food sources were confiscated by the Soviet authorities including their chickens and livestock. Anybody caught taking food from any field or hoarding any food of any kind were if they were lucky sent to Siberia, but more likely killed.

Most Ukrainian families lost part of their family during WWII including my wife's grandfather being killed in 1944 while in the Soviet army.