Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[LC0112G]

That would be the MoDs fault then

Yup - and the problem is going to get worse. In the next decade we're likely to end up with a fleet including C-17, RC-135, P-8, and F-35A all of which require boom refuelling, and nothing capable of refuelling them. And a fleet of Chinooks and Merlins all of which are AAR probe and drogue capable, but nothing that can fly low/slow enough to refuel them.

Whoever drew up the Airtanker contract wants taking out the back and shooting IMHO.

[Kevin Wood]

Whoever drew up the Airtanker contract wants taking out the back and shooting IMHO.

Bet there was a nice brown paper envelope in it for them, though.

[tigers_gonads]

That would be the MoDs fault then

Yup - and the problem is going to get worse. In the next decade we're likely to end up with a fleet including C-17, RC-135, P-8, and F-35A all of which require boom refuelling, and nothing capable of refuelling them. And a fleet of Chinooks and Merlins all of which are AAR probe and drogue capable, but nothing that can fly low/slow enough to refuel them.

Whoever drew up the Airtanker contract wants taking out the back and shooting IMHO.

Were getting the B model of the JSF
Both the B and C use probe and drogue 

Easy enough to fit a refuelling probe to the others.
Just bolt it to the roof and run the pipe though the cockpit with a few p clips / tie wraps and down through a nice warm avionics bay into the bomb bay carefully install all associated pipework 

[05omegav6]

Just like they did with the single Vulcan that bombed Stanley

[Kevin Wood]

Just like they did with the single Vulcan that bombed Stanley

Yeah, and that didn't even leak much.. in the end.

[05omegav6]

Just like they did with the single Vulcan that bombed Stanley

Yeah, and that didn't even leak much.. in the end.

A while since I read the book, but it took a couple of attempts to get it right

[Kevin Wood]

Just like they did with the single Vulcan that bombed Stanley

Yeah, and that didn't even leak much.. in the end.

A while since I read the book, but it took a couple of attempts to get it right

.. and a buttock clencher over the South Atlantic when they did a "Taxi Al" over the manufacturer's fuel consumption figures .

[05omegav6]

 

Got the job done though

[chrisgixer]

Whoever drew up the Airtanker contract wants taking out the back and shooting IMHO.

Bet there was a nice brown paper envelope in it for them, though.

See, we often think that with our lot at work, as nobody's that stupid, right? But that would take some sort of deliberate for thought and action . When more likely, the cards just fell where they lay, as nobody knows any better. Yes they really are that stupid.

[LC0112G]

That would be the MoDs fault then

Yup - and the problem is going to get worse. In the next decade we're likely to end up with a fleet including C-17, RC-135, P-8, and F-35A all of which require boom refuelling, and nothing capable of refuelling them. And a fleet of Chinooks and Merlins all of which are AAR probe and drogue capable, but nothing that can fly low/slow enough to refuel them.

Whoever drew up the Airtanker contract wants taking out the back and shooting IMHO.

Were getting the B model of the JSF
Both the B and C use probe and drogue 

Yes, and no. The RAF are already looking at replacing the Typhoon with F-35A once Typhoon export orders are exhausted, and the production line closes (estimated 2018).

Easy enough to fit a refuelling probe to the others.
Just bolt it to the roof and run the pipe though the cockpit with a few p clips / tie wraps and down through a nice warm avionics bay into the bomb bay carefully install all associated pipework 

Nope. Virtually impossible unless someone is prepared to pay for the re-design according to the JSF project office. The space used for the probe in the F-35B is used for something else in the F-35A and the F-35A does not have the plumbing installed to support the probe either. You can't bolt anything to the outside of the airframe without compromising the stealth characteristics. It doesnt even have external drop tanks.

The Canadians have already realised this restriction - they're currently an all probe-drogue Air force too. They've had to re-assess their order for F-35A for several reasons, one being the cost of designing probe and drogue into F-35A. Last I saw the figure of $2Bn USD was quoted. Our best hope is that the canadians pick up the tab, and we then get to use their technology. Otherwise, we either have to pay $2Bn, or my preferred option - go for F-35C, which is what should be operating off our carriers anyway. We risk having limited range 'jump jets' operating off the largest carriers we've ever owned, and the RAF operating navy jets from shore bases. Barking.

[tigers_gonads]

The f 35a or any new model of it will never replace the typhoon.

They can go on about so called stealth till there blue in the face but if it can be beaten now using multiple pfr radar emitters then in 25 years time, a aircraft designed to reflect radar as the f35 is will be oppsed.
At the end of the day, all a AESA radar is either fixed (or in the case of Captor E a movable dish) with a mass of separate tx / rx modules which can be independently directed. There is nothing to stop it transmitting across a massive frequency spectrum to produce a incredibly detailed picture which would enable it to see a low observable object.
If it starts uses active deceptive jamming then the old adage stands that if transmits then it can be tracked and killed.
Also that big burner strapped to its arse would standout like a lighthouse to IRST kit even today never mind 25 years time.
It is far too slow and would loose any turning fight even today so on that front, its knackered too.

Uncle Vlad and his chums had the AESA radar on the MIG 31 working on 2 different frequencies (VL and higher) at the same time 10 years ago so in another 25 years, i'll leave that to your imagination.

Imo, I think we will be looking at a very fast, hyper manoeuvrable drone flown by some geek in a bunker somewhere via satellite for its replacement.
Now tell me what happens when these satellites get taken out or jammed 
Back to square one me thinks 

[LC0112G]

The f 35a or any new model of it will never replace the typhoon.

I suspect small numbers of Typhoons will be kept for QRA/Air superiority (a bit like the Lightnings during the Phantom era) . The USAF plan to operate F-22 and F-35. The RAF will operate Typhoon and F-35B for sure, and the writing is already on the wall for an F-35A order too. Typhoon will be primary air defence, secondary ground attack/strike. F-35A will be primary ground attack/strike, secondart air defence. F-35B will have to do both for carrier ops. 

http://ukarmedforcescommentary.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/f35b-48-b-for-carriers-then-maybe-some-a.html

Lots of other similar rumors too. HMG can't possibly commit to anything before all possibility of export orders is gone, and the Warton line is closed. After that the UK makes large parts of every F-35, so it's not a difficult sell. At the moment we have only actually ordered 4 F-35's - all B's. The production order is due to be placed after the next election - and is expected to be only 48 aircraft.

They can go on about so called stealth till there blue in the face but if it can be beaten now using multiple pfr radar emitters then in 25 years time, a aircraft designed to reflect radar as the f35 is will be oppsed.
At the end of the day, all a AESA radar is either fixed (or in the case of Captor E a movable dish) with a mass of separate tx / rx modules which can be independently directed. There is nothing to stop it transmitting across a massive frequency spectrum to produce a incredibly detailed picture which would enable it to see a low observable object.
If it starts uses active deceptive jamming then the old adage stands that if transmits then it can be tracked and killed.
Also that big burner strapped to its arse would standout like a lighthouse to IRST kit even today never mind 25 years time.
It is far too slow and would loose any turning fight even today so on that front, its knackered too.

Uncle Vlad and his chums had the AESA radar on the MIG 31 working on 2 different frequencies (VL and higher) at the same time 10 years ago so in another 25 years, i'll leave that to your imagination.

Typhoon doesn't currently have an AESA radar, F-35 does. Yes there is a design, and it's due to fly later this year but no-one has announced any plans to fit it to RAF aircraft AFAIK. And you might want to talk to some pilots and ask how effective IRST is   

For F-35 the clue is in the original name JSF - Joint Strike Fighter. It isn't and never was intended to primerily be an air superiority fighter or interceptor. In crude terms it's a bomber - a replacement for F-16, Tornado, Harrier, Jaguar etc. As such, on the first day of the war, you'd rather be in an aircraft with stealth than one without when heading to a target.  There is no reason for the UK to want 100+ 'jump jets' - they won't all be needed for operations off 2 carriers. The RAF will want the longer range and greater payload that the F-35A allows for its land based operations.

Imo, I think we will be looking at a very fast, hyper manoeuvrable drone flown by some geek in a bunker somewhere via satellite for its replacement.
Now tell me what happens when these satellites get taken out or jammed 
Back to square one me thinks 

Drones will work for recce, strike and surveillance, but are impractical for a manouvering fight. The time delays are too long, and there ain't much anyone can do about the speed of light.