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[petec]

Hi all,
Am just in the process of fixing all the niggling problems on the miggy whilst the sun is still shining. Just fixed a cracked coolant rad, a leaking oil cooler cover (bu$$er to find), weeping cam cover gaskets and replaced a crumbling air con condenser. Only one fault left now, a hot spot on the driver seat heater.
I know problems with heated seats have been dealt with a number of times on the forum so I am ok with SRS issues, mounting bolts, the weight of them and the fiddly rings underneath but there are a couple of things I have not been able to find answers for so hoping someone could fill in the blanks for me.

My miggy is a 2003 facelift CDX with leather seats. passenger side heater works fine,  drivers side works but has an intense hot spot at the front left of the seat squab (as if you are sitting on it (ouch ).
 I am guessing the heating track is damaged and the higher resistance is causing the hotspot (happy to be corrected on this) If possible I was going to try and repair the track but I gather the heating element is stitched into the seat cover on leather seats so my questions are :-
 Is it possible to get to the pad without destroying the seat cover in order to work on it.
Has anyone successfully managed to repair a seat squab element if accessible
and finally if its accessible and potentially repairable is it feasible to peel back the front of the seat squab cover to repair without removing the seat. (I am presuming no to this but thought I would ask just in case.
thanks

[zirk]

If your going to the trouble of taking the seat apart, probably easier just to replace the heater pad rather than attempt repair, even with a known good second hand one. Seem to remember hearing that the Leather Pads are glued in, so probably end up killing it anyway.

If you use your Heaters a lot get it done sooner rather than later, I had one that set a cloth seat alight and filled the car up with smoke whilst bombing around the M25. 

[petec]

If your going to the trouble of taking the seat apart, probably easier just to replace the heater pad rather than attempt repair, even with a known good second hand one. Seem to remember hearing that the Leather Pads are glued in, so probably end up killing it anyway.

do you know whether its possible to just replace the seat squab heater. and link it to the existing seat back heater?  I gather the cloth seat variant can be laid under the original but I don't really want to strip out the back as well if its not necessary and I am guessing it may not be easy to find a good second-hand pad.

If the heating pad is glued to the leather cover do you know whether the actual circuit is on the side away from the leather (visible with cover off) or toward the leather and not accessible to access it without "killing it" as you rather nicely put it.

[05omegav6]

Have a search on here...

The was a chap who used to repair them, Lincs Robert was his name, since left

Posts might be listed under Iwantanomega, but I could be mistaken

[TheBoy]

It will fail soon. Best to cut out the faulty bit. Bit of a fiddly job to strip the seat.

[petec]

It will fail soon. Best to cut out the faulty bit. Bit of a fiddly job to strip the seat.

Before I stripped the seat I wanted to get an idea of whether a repair is feasible/possible. By cutting out the faulty bit are you talking about the whole seat pad or just an element within it as I imagined the seat pad would just be one loop

[TheBoy]

There is no "pad" in leather seats, the element is stitched into the leather.  Its a case of just chopping out the duff inch or so, and joining. Solder is normally not going to work, so invariably I end up crimping

[tigers_gonads]

Have a search on here...

The was a chap who used to repair them, Lincs Robert was his name, since left

Posts might be listed under Iwantanomega, but I could be mistaken

Robs still around but doesn't post anymore 
I'll have a word next time I talk to him and see if he is interested in a little guvvie 

[chrisgixer]

Hot spot will distort the leather eventually, as the heat will start to burn through. Hopefully that's not too obvious a statement.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Have a search on here...

The was a chap who used to repair them, Lincs Robert was his name, since left

Posts might be listed under Iwantanomega, but I could be mistaken

Why did he leave?

[petec]

There is no "pad" in leather seats, the element is stitched into the leather.  Its a case of just chopping out the duff inch or so, and joining. Solder is normally not going to work, so invariably I end up crimping

that sounds promising. As soon as the seat started getting hot in one place I stopped using it to avoid the inevitable bonfire so hopefully no damage to the leather yet. I suppose the ideal would be a pair of MV6 front recaro's in dark grey leather with good heaters for peanuts but failing that I will have a go at piecing out the damaged bit of element when I don't need the car for a day or two .

To change the subject momentarily, had to laugh this evening, for a while my neighbours had the benefit of my power sounder randomly going off in the middle of the night, fixed it last week and all was quiet until tonight when my neighbours Volvo v70 developed the same problem (very similar sounder).

Anyway, thanks for help and advice all, will have a go at weekend and see how it goes.

[petec]

Well I started this thread ages ago and really meant to sort out my seat heater in September....best laid plans and all that.
Anyway I decided to have a go this week (as summer actually seems to be over now) and see how do-able a repair would be.

Having got the drivers seat out of the car and into a warm living room (SWMBO out for the day) surprisingly it only took about an hour to fix and now things are toasty again (but not too toasty) just in time for the snow.

I just thought I would post some observations in case it helps anyone. Bear in mind this is a facelift leather seat, the fabric ones seem a lot simpler to get to heating elements.

First off, my seat had a hot spot toward the front left of the seat cushion just inboard of the front to back stitching for the bolster, this is a point where the element across the cushion is soldered and it seems over time the element had flexed where the rigid solder ended and strands broke, increasing the resistance at this point and caused a local hot spot. If you have similar symptoms then a fix could be viable. Instructions for seat removal are in a mtce guide. be sure to disconnect battery and leave for a while before unplugging seat to ensure air bag deactivated.

If your heater does not work at all then, assuming the fault is actually in the seat and not the switch, connectors or supply you will probably have great difficulty finding the break as the element is fixed to the underside of the leather which is then covered by a foam layer and a fabric layer which is stitched into the cover so you need to know where to cut to find the problem. In that situation the good advice from others to look for a replacement seat seems fair .

I found that in my case it wasn't necessary to completely strip the seat or remove all those pesky steel rings because the fault was near the front of the seat cushion so before removing seat  I stuck a piece of masking tape on the spot where it got too hot. Then with seat on floor I removed the plastic rake adjusting knob (2 screws), unhitch the plastic trim it sits on (I screw front underneath and couple of push in clips along length. I did not need to completely remove this trim, just release the front so didn't need to remove seat back adjuster etc. Next remove 4 bolts underneath frame to release seat from chassis, motors etc. and you can then get to the lower front edge of the seat cushion. You will need to clip off a few tie wraps holding wiring in place, make a note of positions of cables and ties before you remove them to make sure nothing gets trapped or mis placed when you put it back, I always take a few pics on my phone to remind me  .
 The bottom edge of the leather cover has a strip of rigid card sown into it which hooks over a lip around the steel seat base. If you compress the cushion, relieving the tension on the edge of the cover it can be unclipped all round and the  front can be folded back off the foam to the first row of lateral stitching which in my case was enough to get at the problem. You will find there is a steel ring holding the cover down to a wire in the foam each side which will be in the way, I removed one and had sufficient access.

The inside of the cover has a cloth layer, under this a layer of foam and then the element is stuck to the leather. I made a  cut in fabric under point where I had stuck masking tape, then carefully through foam to expose heating wire. The wire zigzags across cushion and (certainly the front element) is soldered where it meets the bolster. Mine had frayed where the rigid solder ended. The element is finely stranded copper based wire. It was a bit blackened and worse for wear at the joint so I cut it back about 3cm, cleaned the wire by gently scraping with craft knife and then I slipped a couple of 6cm lengths of heat shrink tube along the element and crimped it to the soldered end with a small crimp and a ratchet crimper I then ran some solder over join to be sure although I think crimp is sufficient.  I then slid the heatshrink tube over the join and shrank it on so wire would not flex as much at the join again. nearly done. I just glued the element back down to the cover, glued the cut edges of the foam together and stitched the fabric covering so it would not pull apart when there was weight on the seat. then just reassemble and hopefully it will be good again. ......