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Please play nicely.  No one wants to listen/read a keyboard warriors rants....

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Author Topic: Greece  (Read 1203 times)

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Varche

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Greece
« on: 05 February 2015, 21:55:03 »

A lot of people will be watching to see how the new regime in Greece get on with "less austerity" more work,less bailouts etc. certainly the new party Podemos (only 12months old) and already ahead in the polls here in Spain will be.

But how is it going to work? The Greek finance minister has been pressing the flesh in Northern Europe to little effect. The Germans have offered 500 tax collectors!

A Grexit would just lead to even worse living conditions.

My guess is they will get longer to pay their debt. One article I read said the Greeks have only seen about 10 percent of the bail out, the rest just went straight to the banks.

What do you think will happen?
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tigers_gonads

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Re: Greece
« Reply #1 on: 05 February 2015, 22:22:52 »

Yup, Frau Merkel has most of southern Europe by the 'dangle berries' and the more they squeal, the me she will squeeze them.
Yet another reason to avoid federal Europe and the euro imo
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Sir Tigger KC

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Re: Greece
« Reply #2 on: 05 February 2015, 23:00:54 »

It's becoming a high stakes game of poker. Syriza elected on promises that they probably can't deliver.  The new Greek Finance Minister touring Northern Europe seeking support, without much success.  The ECB withdrawing funding from Greek banks which will cause a fresh liquidity crisis, damaging any fragile recovery that might be occuring.  Which in turn will make the Grexit more likely!  ::)

Meanwhile Putin looks on....  :(
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Marks DTM Calib

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Re: Greece
« Reply #3 on: 06 February 2015, 10:54:54 »

Meanwhile Putin looks on....  :(

Yes but Putin would need good access to the Black Sea and control of the Crimean peninsula plus a route through a bit of northern Turkey to get to Greece......oh hang on a minute.....
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Field Marshal Dr. Opti

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Re: Greece
« Reply #4 on: 06 February 2015, 11:11:36 »

It's becoming a high stakes game of poker. Syriza elected on promises that they probably can't deliver.  The new Greek Finance Minister touring Northern Europe seeking support, without much success.  The ECB withdrawing funding from Greek banks which will cause a fresh liquidity crisis, damaging any fragile recovery that might be occuring.  Which in turn will make the Grexit more likely!  ::)

Meanwhile Putin looks on....  :(

I'll go along with this.

I'm really not sure how this will play out. :-\

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Rods2

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Re: Greece
« Reply #5 on: 06 February 2015, 22:41:08 »

This is a high stake game of poker, where each card says Germany Wins. ???

By far the two biggest beneficiaries with the EU have been Germany and France. German where the rules that are useful have been used to maximum advantage to grow their economy and increase their surplus with the rest of the EU and France, where it would have been an economic basket case long before now without all those subsidies and rules to make the EU countries around them much more like France to reduce their competitiveness compared to France.

Both French and German had overbought Greek sovereign bonds and would have been in trouble without the loans from the Troika that bought the Greek bonds back. :o :o :o

At 175% of GDP, Greece can never pay these debts back and the only quick route to recovery is to follow Iceland's example by defaulting and a Grexit. This they should have done at the beginning of the crisis which have saved them all this long term pain along with the rest of the Euro countries. They can then introduce their own currency and use the exchange rate to adjust their competitiveness against other countries. We could call the new currency TP (toilet paper) as that is what it will be with the extreme left-right coalition now in power, but who will care as their fate is then in their own hands. The losses to the Euro countries will be substantial and also be the first IMF losses in their history, but the IMF have IMO exceeded their remit and rules when bailing out the PIIGS, so this is no surprise. As John Redwood has often said, the Euro is like sharing your bank account with your neighbours and when one of them is a very indebted shopalcoholic then when you are over the age of consent and sign the joint and several agreement then you have to take it on the chin.

An alternative I can see where both Greek coalition parties are Putinphiles is them trying to use all countries have to agree to sanctions which are up for renewal for another year between now and July as a bargaining lever, but I think this will be a very dangerous game, where many EU countries are rapidly losing patience with Greece, everytime they look at where they are trying to use the German credit cards again for a shopping spree.

My money is still on the Euro failing as there is no resolution to the fundamental problems of the imbalances between the Euro countries economies which are meant to be moving together but are infact moving further apart. Without separate currencies, the only way to absorb the imbalances in by Government subsidies, like the UK does with Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland but on a much bigger scale. Germany will never agree to this as the unification of East and West German currencies was ruinous enough and this is small change compared with what will be required to save the Euro. IMO Italy is the most likely stress and failure point, closely followed by France.
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