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[amigov6]

Why is it when they're on full lock they have positive camber?
   I've always wondered! :-/

[Kevin Wood]

They have quite a lot of caster, which means you get a gain in camber as the steering lock is applied.

Think of the king pin being slanted, instead of vertical, so the bottom is closer to the front of the car than the top.

Kevin

[Kevin Wood]

From the man himself:

http://www.wheels-inmotion.co.uk/tech-longcastor.php

Kevin

[amigov6]

From the man himself:

http://www.wheels-inmotion.co.uk/tech-longcastor.php

Kevin

Cheers Kevin but what are the benefits if any & why do only Merc seem to do it? :-/

[Kevin Wood]

All cars have a positive castor angle. Handling will be very nervous without it because it affects self centring of the steering amongst other things.

Not sure why it's so pronounced on Mercs but they do appear to use much more castor than most. :-/ More than one way to skin a cat, I guess.

Kevin

[Bent valve]

 I think citroen 2cvs and those diane thingys had a similar castor angle to Mercs

[feeutfo]

afaik, all relates to the top shock mount position, on a single wishbone set up that is. Ie, caster relates to the angle of the shock and king pin, with top shock mount set rearward of the steering knuckle and quickens the stearing the steeper it is, much like a bike. Think chopper, very slow heavy steering, or sports bike with forks far more vertical, gives far quicker steering. The steeper the angle the more the wheel leans over when turned.

But more than that, what happens when you set the top shock mount more inboard of the king pin/steering knuckle position? I think, but not certain, that the wheel will lean still further, over and above the caster angle...? A way of getting the wheel to lean into the turn without too quick steering?

The advantage being, in any event, that the wheel is less likely to role off the rim if it leans into the turn and gives more grip......afaik anyway. :-)

[Kevin Wood]

But more than that, what happens when you set the top shock mount more inboard of the king pin/steering knuckle position?

King Pin Inclination. It also has an effect on the camber gain and self-centring. Oh, the joys of suspension geometry. Hours of fun.

Kevin

[feeutfo]

But more than that, what happens when you set the top shock mount more inboard of the king pin/steering knuckle position?

King Pin Inclination. It also has an effect on the camber gain and self-centring. Oh, the joys of suspension geometry. Hours of fun.

Kevin

It would take me more than a couple of hours to translate that description from WIM in the link, blimey......

[Kevin Wood]

I'm sure I used to know a site that explained suspension setup in a comprehensible way but can I find it?

Kevin

[wheels-inmotion]

But more than that, what happens when you set the top shock mount more inboard of the king pin/steering knuckle position?

King Pin Inclination. It also has an effect on the camber gain and self-centring. Oh, the joys of suspension geometry. Hours of fun.

Kevin

It would take me more than a couple of hours to translate that description from WIM in the link, blimey......

The link was to the theory...... The basics is a much easier read.

[wheels-inmotion]

Why is it when they're on full lock they have positive camber?
   I've always wondered! :-/

On all domestic vehicles the inner wheel migrates to positive. On the Merc there is a specific mechanism that utilizes the very low camber but long castor so that the steering axis radii is secure at speed and able around town.

The "roll-over" effect you see is only at the very extreme end of the lock and very rarely used.... Just as well really!