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[LJay]

I just struggle with the concept that some people who serve our country, somehow believe they are a cut above! It annoys the hell out of me!

I wonder how well a "classless military" would function? :-/

Kevin

One hell of a sight better than it does now! There'd be money for folks in the firing line to be properly equipped and protected instead of it being spent on knobs in suits sitting round drinking brandy and putting the world to rights (though not actually doing anything helpful towards it ).

[Dishevelled Den]

I just struggle with the concept that some people who serve our country, somehow believe they are a cut above! It annoys the hell out of me!

I wonder how well a "classless military" would function? :-/

Kevin

A fine question that demands some thought

[tigers_gonads]

I just struggle with the concept that some people who serve our country, somehow believe they are a cut above! It annoys the hell out of me!

I wonder how well a "classless military" would function? :-/

Kevin

One hell of a sight better than it does now! There'd be money for folks in the firing line to be properly equipped and protected instead of it being spent on knobs in suits sitting round drinking brandy and putting the world to rights (though not actually doing anything helpful towards it ).

sadly,  since 1989 ( the end of the cold war ) the armed forces has been run by accountant's 

i'm waiting for the next cold war
ever since the late 70's when the yanks had the soviets over a barrell over the grain, the soviets have been itching too due the same.

now who supplies most of europe with gas  :-/

[Gaffers]

This isn't the way I wanted the conversation to go, Zulu got it, amazed and disappointed that others jumped straight onto the class bandwagon.

I think that people who make ill-informed comments about illusions of grandeur on my part should put the 'one colour paints all brush' away and look at things properly for a minute.  For a long time the rank of officer has been open to everyone who has the academic and leadership qualities, indeed there are a small number who are from rich families and in a small number of regiments there always will be.  The majority of officers that form the officer corps come from modest or middle class backgrounds.  I had a good start in life because my parents worked hard for it, my dad came from nothing and actually apart from his house and his health he has nothing right now or ever did.

We have to look and appear a certain way because thats what soldiers expect and want from us.  Dont forget that leaders (should) serve the people who work for them not their masters.  A lot of soldiers dont want our jobs because of the amount of crap we have to deal with.  In many respects I wish I was a Sgt but I made my choice and there is no going back.

LJay, it is very easy to pass comment on those you have no exposure to and know nothing about.  I think the fact you dont like me has clouded your opinions and comments here.  Steve made a joke, your comments are frankly rude and offensive.  If you knew anything about the army you would know that very few today are born with a silver spoon in their mouth and more than ever come from the ranks.  Ask any soldier of mine if they believe I think myself above any single one of them and you will be suprised.

Now what I wanted the conversation to focus on is the art of conversation without the trappings of modern technology and the distractions we have today.  I would prefer it if we talked about that please before I get upset about being called something I am not.

[Dishevelled Den]

I just struggle with the concept that some people who serve our country, somehow believe they are a cut above! It annoys the hell out of me!

I wonder how well a "classless military" would function? :-/

Kevin

In my salad days there certainly was an issue of 'class' within the mess membership, although from my perspective it didn't impinge on the professional discharge of any duties or indeed the camaraderie experienced within the officer cadre itself.

The question of class, especially in its inherently pejorative sense, matters much less now as the professional soldier has a greater responsibly to discharge so must therefore be drawn from a deeper pool of suitable material.

Having regard to that class is now largely irrelevant, as the right people for the job can be found in many walks of life and hailing from many  backgrounds, the nett result of which is that the officer structure of most units today is essentially classless.

I found this to be true many years ago when I moved from conventional duties.  All appointed positions were assessed solely on the capability of the individual to do the job and not upon what he/she carried in terms of privilege and/or breeding.

So yes, it can and does function.

[Gaffers]

I just struggle with the concept that some people who serve our country, somehow believe they are a cut above! It annoys the hell out of me!

I wonder how well a "classless military" would function? :-/

Kevin

In my salad days there certainly was an issue of 'class' within the mess membership, although from my perspective it didn't impinge on the professional discharge of any duties or indeed the camaraderie experienced within the officer cadre itself.

The question of class, especially in its inherently pejorative sense, matters much less now as the professional soldier has a greater responsibly to discharge so must therefore be drawn from a deeper pool of suitable material.

Having regard to that class is now largely irrelevant, as the right people for the job can be found in many walks of life and hailing from many  backgrounds, the nett result of which is that the officer structure of most units today is essentially classless.

I found this to be true many years ago when I moved from conventional duties.  All appointed positions were assessed solely on the capability of the individual to do the job and not upon what he/she carried in terms of privilege and/or breeding.

So yes, it can and does function.

Nail on the head Z

[LJay]

This isn't the way I wanted the conversation to go, Zulu got it, amazed and disappointed that others jumped straight onto the class bandwagon.

I think that people who make ill-informed comments about illusions of grandeur on my part should put the 'one colour paints all brush' away and look at things properly for a minute.  For a long time the rank of officer has been open to everyone who has the academic and leadership qualities, indeed there are a small number who are from rich families and in a small number of regiments there always will be.  The majority of officers that form the officer corps come from modest or middle class backgrounds.  I had a good start in life because my parents worked hard for it, my dad came from nothing and actually apart from his house and his health he has nothing right now or ever did.

We have to look and appear a certain way because thats what soldiers expect and want from us.  Dont forget that leaders (should) serve the people who work for them not their masters.  A lot of soldiers dont want our jobs because of the amount of crap we have to deal with.  In many respects I wish I was a Sgt but I made my choice and there is no going back.

LJay, it is very easy to pass comment on those you have no exposure to and know nothing about.  I think the fact you dont like me has clouded your opinions and comments here.  Steve made a joke, your comments are frankly rude and offensive.  If you knew anything about the army you would know that very few today are born with a silver spoon in their mouth and more than ever come from the ranks.  Ask any soldier of mine if they believe I think myself above any single one of them and you will be suprised.

Now what I wanted the conversation to focus on is the art of conversation without the trappings of modern technology and the distractions we have today.  I would prefer it if we talked about that please before I get upset about being called something I am not.

My personal feelings towards you (of which there are none, can't spare the energy) are irrelevant! I speak as I find and as such our armed forces would be a damn sight better off without your ''old customs'' Let the people living in the real world outside of the mess make the decisions!
As for upset about being called something your not, well, your original post speaks for itself! 

You surely can't imagine that it will be seen as a good thing you bragging about sitting around practising the art of conversation when there are wars going on, soldiers being killed due to lack of proper kit etc.  :-?

[Gaffers]

This isn't the way I wanted the conversation to go, Zulu got it, amazed and disappointed that others jumped straight onto the class bandwagon.

I think that people who make ill-informed comments about illusions of grandeur on my part should put the 'one colour paints all brush' away and look at things properly for a minute.  For a long time the rank of officer has been open to everyone who has the academic and leadership qualities, indeed there are a small number who are from rich families and in a small number of regiments there always will be.  The majority of officers that form the officer corps come from modest or middle class backgrounds.  I had a good start in life because my parents worked hard for it, my dad came from nothing and actually apart from his house and his health he has nothing right now or ever did.

We have to look and appear a certain way because thats what soldiers expect and want from us.  Dont forget that leaders (should) serve the people who work for them not their masters.  A lot of soldiers dont want our jobs because of the amount of crap we have to deal with.  In many respects I wish I was a Sgt but I made my choice and there is no going back.

LJay, it is very easy to pass comment on those you have no exposure to and know nothing about.  I think the fact you dont like me has clouded your opinions and comments here.  Steve made a joke, your comments are frankly rude and offensive.  If you knew anything about the army you would know that very few today are born with a silver spoon in their mouth and more than ever come from the ranks.  Ask any soldier of mine if they believe I think myself above any single one of them and you will be suprised.

Now what I wanted the conversation to focus on is the art of conversation without the trappings of modern technology and the distractions we have today.  I would prefer it if we talked about that please before I get upset about being called something I am not.

My personal feelings towards you (of which there are none, can't spare the energy) are irrelevant! I speak as I find and as such our armed forces would be a damn sight better off without your ''old customs'' Let the people living in the real world outside of the mess make the decisions!
As for upset about being called something your not, well, your original post speaks for itself! 

You surely can't imagine that it will be seen as a good thing you bragging about sitting around practising the art of conversation when there are wars going on, soldiers being killed due to lack of proper kit etc.  :-?

Proof that you haven't a clue about what it is we do in the army and my role in it.  Carry on believing what you read in the papers, it'll make you so well informed....

[tigers_gonads]

gaffers, being the relitive new kid on the block and still trying too work who is who and due too circumstances, i will be on here more often 

polite request .............. any chance of a bit of background on yourself and zulu ?
pm obviously 

cheers    steve

[LJay]

This isn't the way I wanted the conversation to go, Zulu got it, amazed and disappointed that others jumped straight onto the class bandwagon.

I think that people who make ill-informed comments about illusions of grandeur on my part should put the 'one colour paints all brush' away and look at things properly for a minute.  For a long time the rank of officer has been open to everyone who has the academic and leadership qualities, indeed there are a small number who are from rich families and in a small number of regiments there always will be.  The majority of officers that form the officer corps come from modest or middle class backgrounds.  I had a good start in life because my parents worked hard for it, my dad came from nothing and actually apart from his house and his health he has nothing right now or ever did.

We have to look and appear a certain way because thats what soldiers expect and want from us.  Dont forget that leaders (should) serve the people who work for them not their masters.  A lot of soldiers dont want our jobs because of the amount of crap we have to deal with.  In many respects I wish I was a Sgt but I made my choice and there is no going back.

LJay, it is very easy to pass comment on those you have no exposure to and know nothing about.  I think the fact you dont like me has clouded your opinions and comments here.  Steve made a joke, your comments are frankly rude and offensive.  If you knew anything about the army you would know that very few today are born with a silver spoon in their mouth and more than ever come from the ranks.  Ask any soldier of mine if they believe I think myself above any single one of them and you will be suprised.

Now what I wanted the conversation to focus on is the art of conversation without the trappings of modern technology and the distractions we have today.  I would prefer it if we talked about that please before I get upset about being called something I am not.

My personal feelings towards you (of which there are none, can't spare the energy) are irrelevant! I speak as I find and as such our armed forces would be a damn sight better off without your ''old customs'' Let the people living in the real world outside of the mess make the decisions!
As for upset about being called something your not, well, your original post speaks for itself! 

You surely can't imagine that it will be seen as a good thing you bragging about sitting around practising the art of conversation when there are wars going on, soldiers being killed due to lack of proper kit etc.  :-?

Proof that you haven't a clue about what it is we do in the army and my role in it.  Carry on believing what you read in the papers, it'll make you so well informed....

I don't read papers or watch the news my love! Wind your neck in and stop presuming what you think I know!!
Why should England tremble?? Oh I know its because the likes of you are defending us!!

[Gaffers]

This isn't the way I wanted the conversation to go, Zulu got it, amazed and disappointed that others jumped straight onto the class bandwagon.

I think that people who make ill-informed comments about illusions of grandeur on my part should put the 'one colour paints all brush' away and look at things properly for a minute.  For a long time the rank of officer has been open to everyone who has the academic and leadership qualities, indeed there are a small number who are from rich families and in a small number of regiments there always will be.  The majority of officers that form the officer corps come from modest or middle class backgrounds.  I had a good start in life because my parents worked hard for it, my dad came from nothing and actually apart from his house and his health he has nothing right now or ever did.

We have to look and appear a certain way because thats what soldiers expect and want from us.  Dont forget that leaders (should) serve the people who work for them not their masters.  A lot of soldiers dont want our jobs because of the amount of crap we have to deal with.  In many respects I wish I was a Sgt but I made my choice and there is no going back.

LJay, it is very easy to pass comment on those you have no exposure to and know nothing about.  I think the fact you dont like me has clouded your opinions and comments here.  Steve made a joke, your comments are frankly rude and offensive.  If you knew anything about the army you would know that very few today are born with a silver spoon in their mouth and more than ever come from the ranks.  Ask any soldier of mine if they believe I think myself above any single one of them and you will be suprised.

Now what I wanted the conversation to focus on is the art of conversation without the trappings of modern technology and the distractions we have today.  I would prefer it if we talked about that please before I get upset about being called something I am not.

My personal feelings towards you (of which there are none, can't spare the energy) are irrelevant! I speak as I find and as such our armed forces would be a damn sight better off without your ''old customs'' Let the people living in the real world outside of the mess make the decisions!
As for upset about being called something your not, well, your original post speaks for itself! 

You surely can't imagine that it will be seen as a good thing you bragging about sitting around practising the art of conversation when there are wars going on, soldiers being killed due to lack of proper kit etc.  :-?

Proof that you haven't a clue about what it is we do in the army and my role in it.  Carry on believing what you read in the papers, it'll make you so well informed....

I don't read papers or watch the news my love! Wind your neck in and stop presuming what you think I know!!
Why should England tremble?? Oh I know its because the likes of you are defending us!!

With people like you in this glorious country it makes us wonder why we put our lives in the line....... then we remember...... thankfully most people aren't like you 

[LJay]

This isn't the way I wanted the conversation to go, Zulu got it, amazed and disappointed that others jumped straight onto the class bandwagon.

I think that people who make ill-informed comments about illusions of grandeur on my part should put the 'one colour paints all brush' away and look at things properly for a minute.  For a long time the rank of officer has been open to everyone who has the academic and leadership qualities, indeed there are a small number who are from rich families and in a small number of regiments there always will be.  The majority of officers that form the officer corps come from modest or middle class backgrounds.  I had a good start in life because my parents worked hard for it, my dad came from nothing and actually apart from his house and his health he has nothing right now or ever did.

We have to look and appear a certain way because thats what soldiers expect and want from us.  Dont forget that leaders (should) serve the people who work for them not their masters.  A lot of soldiers dont want our jobs because of the amount of crap we have to deal with.  In many respects I wish I was a Sgt but I made my choice and there is no going back.

LJay, it is very easy to pass comment on those you have no exposure to and know nothing about.  I think the fact you dont like me has clouded your opinions and comments here.  Steve made a joke, your comments are frankly rude and offensive.  If you knew anything about the army you would know that very few today are born with a silver spoon in their mouth and more than ever come from the ranks.  Ask any soldier of mine if they believe I think myself above any single one of them and you will be suprised.

Now what I wanted the conversation to focus on is the art of conversation without the trappings of modern technology and the distractions we have today.  I would prefer it if we talked about that please before I get upset about being called something I am not.

My personal feelings towards you (of which there are none, can't spare the energy) are irrelevant! I speak as I find and as such our armed forces would be a damn sight better off without your ''old customs'' Let the people living in the real world outside of the mess make the decisions!
As for upset about being called something your not, well, your original post speaks for itself! 

You surely can't imagine that it will be seen as a good thing you bragging about sitting around practising the art of conversation when there are wars going on, soldiers being killed due to lack of proper kit etc.  :-?

Proof that you haven't a clue about what it is we do in the army and my role in it.  Carry on believing what you read in the papers, it'll make you so well informed....

I don't read papers or watch the news my love! Wind your neck in and stop presuming what you think I know!!
Why should England tremble?? Oh I know its because the likes of you are defending us!!

With people like you in this glorious country it makes us wonder why we put our lives in the line....... then we remember...... thankfully most people aren't like you 

What petty enough to take personal grudges to other peoples threads! My god you're the big man!!

[Kevin Wood]

This discussion doesn't appear to be going anywhere useful. Locked.

Kevin