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[mudflap]

privatisation = shareholders = profits = muddle = people dying due to lack of proper health care 

i agree about getting rid of useless managers on fat salaries, the health service is a service, it's not meant to make a profit, no way mate, we'll fight it 


f*****g tories 

What an absolute load of rubbish .... I haven't seen the word "privatisation" mentioned by anyone .. except of course bigoted left wing "bruffers" ...

The labour Government .. who was supposed to work FOR the lowerpaid "bruffers" was in fact the organisation that has pushed up the number of managers on inflated salaries .. that achieve no purpose ...

Actualy .. all "empire building" by socialists feathering their own nests.

However ... "never let the truth get in the way of a good headline "

the thread is clearly named "plans to privatise NHS", though "new" labour, a bunch of sneaky tories behind labour masks anyway,  yes they are guilty of pushing up the salaries of too many managers, the original Labour intention of Heath Care and fair social care for all should still be worth fighting for,  privatisation would reduce this, just look at the state of the railways, overpriced and in need of renovation, their profits going to shareholders  :-?.


It makes me laugh, all those working class "tories" who enjoy sick pay, holidays, safe working conditions etc. etc., all the benefits that true Labour people have fought for for many years are taken for granted - for those who weren't here during the Thatcher  era watch out - cuts??? you ain't seen nothing yet of the damage they will cause...

[MV6Matt]

The Whitepapaer 'Liberating the NHS' (which, it seems has been taken down from the DoH website - I wonder why?) gives a time scale for the abolition of SHAs and PCTs as 2012/13.

Most of the functions that these 2  organisations currently perform are going to local authories (it says.......)

I imagine that the roles that are moved will probably be done under TUPE so there wont be that much of a reduction in the short term (in people or salaries which is where the savings are looking to be made)

I imagine that a lot of the service provision will be tendered and this is where the 'privatisation' bit will fall available to interested companies..........
It is the commissioning bit that will go to the GPs with a smaller performance management role in the local authorities.

A big worry is that there are a large number of GPs that ain't interested in fannying around with commissioning services (although there are lots that are....) and that they will not be getting best value for their patients. Not all Gps want to be burdened with this responsibility. We will have to see how it pans out.

My main hope is that the expected savings will be used to replace front line staff (all those vacancies in my team have not been replaced and the recruitment freeze has only recently been lifted).
Having seen the NHS awash with money 1997-2003/4 it will be interesting to see if the removal of large teirs of managers at SHA/PCT level will let us get back to being allowed to do the work we came into the NHS for - seeing, treating, following-up patients post treatment etc etc. not spending hours filling in data bases and w**ky forms (and the resultant audits)

I have to say I'm not holding my breath.........

Matthew

Agreed ... the problem, as I see it .. is the "empire builders" will not give up their "golden posts" with ease, and will all they can to prove how"important" they are. IME very few "managers" sack themselves ..


All that money was wasted on management that had no direct involvement with health care, getting back to where you guys want to be will be hard work.

....there is an unprecedented level of Associate/deputy directors in my Trust that wwere not there in 2000. We managed without them then. I imagine we could do as well now.
Clinical teams were bigger then of course....

One duputy Directors salary is roughly equivelant to 3 mid point Band 5 nurses.

As you say, They won't be making way for cheaper front line staff if they can help it.........

Matthew

[jerry]

I was not saying that PCTs do a brilliant job and I fully agree about the damage that the"empire building" of New Labour and its "big government" policies have brought. What I was trying to put across was my concerns about the proposed alternative. You cannot simply give the additional job role to"groups of GPs"if you get rid of PCTs. Surely you have to ask how they can make the time to take over these job roles and question also whether they have the business skills to do them, let alone ask how much they would want to do it. I personally can only see them asking for help and who are they going to turn to? who is going to offer to help? Private companies. Now private companies are not all evil or bad and the services they offer may be very good, but the bottom line is that they are managed for profit . Like I said earlier, I have no beef about people spending their hard earned on their health or education but I do believe that the state must offer a good basic service to all. It is true that the government have not used the word "privatize" but then they wouldnt would they? All I am saying is just to look at the likely next logical step in this "reform" given what they have said so far.