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[Nickbat]

A peer and former defence minister has described the A400M military transport plane - which is being bought by the cash-strapped UK armed forces for a secret but outrageous amount of money as....

Hmm. The description wouldn't pass word filter muster, so you'd better read it here

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/11/19/a400m_euro_onanism/

I agree with him. 

[Varche]

Me too. These cost overuns on military stuff that we probably don't need anyway runs into telephone figures and no one bats an eyelid. Same thing happenbed with the fleet of replacement in air refueling tankers.

Anyone been sacked? No of course not.

[Gaffers]

The C-17s we have are leased from the US Military.  They are absolutely pivotal in the type of operations we have conducted over the last 8 years and will continue to provide vital support to operations until at least 2015.

We dont have enough, they are expensive to lease, and they provide a vital capability.  What is so stupid about that?

[Banjax]

The C-17s we have are leased from the US Military.  They are absolutely pivotal in the type of operations we have conducted over the last 8 years and will continue to provide vital support to operations until at least 2015.

We dont have enough, they are expensive to lease, and they provide a vital capability.  What is so stupid about that?

Why dont we just buy C-17's then? Or am I being thick?

[Gaffers]

The C-17s we have are leased from the US Military.  They are absolutely pivotal in the type of operations we have conducted over the last 8 years and will continue to provide vital support to operations until at least 2015.

We dont have enough, they are expensive to lease, and they provide a vital capability.  What is so stupid about that?

Why dont we just buy C-17's then? Or am I being thick?

I heard we are not allowed to 

[Entwood]

The C-17s we have are leased from the US Military.  They are absolutely pivotal in the type of operations we have conducted over the last 8 years and will continue to provide vital support to operations until at least 2015.

We dont have enough, they are expensive to lease, and they provide a vital capability.  What is so stupid about that?

Why dont we just buy C-17's then? Or am I being thick?

I heard we are not allowed to 

You heard correctly

As the development of the C17 was partially funded by the US Government they "control" who is allowed to purchase as well as who can lease, the aircraft.

UK is in fact the only non-US country flying the C17, which was allowed as a "special concession" by the US Senate/Congress. Special acts had to be passed to allow it.

We are allowed to Lease .. but not to buy .... 

The A400M, by the way, is NOT a replacement for the C17 ... but is designed to replace the C130K, VC10 and Tristar ... all very old aircraft well past their use by dates, as  well as the C130J which, although new(ish) has been worked at 4 times it's planned rate for many years ... thus they are also knackered...

The C17 is a Strategic asset, the A400M is designed to be a Tactical asset.

Put simply .. the C17 is too damned expensive (and the yanks won't let us ... part of the conditions of lease... ) to use "in theatre" where there is the risk of it being shot at ... so we need tactical (in theatre) aircraft that WE control to do the job, as the C130J simply can't do it for much longer.

The previous government put so much money into airbus - just to get a few jobs in UK - that there is no money now to purchase more C130 J's .... we are financially and politically "tied" to the A400M

[Nickbat]

UK is in fact the only non-US country flying the C17, which was allowed as a "special concession" by the US Senate/Congress. Special acts had to be passed to allow it.

Not true, E.

Boeing has delivered 224 C-17s worldwide, including 20 with international customers. The U.S. Air Force -- including active National Guard and Reserve units -- has taken delivery of 204. Other customers include the Canadian Forces, the Royal Australian Air Force, the United Arab Emirates Air Force and Air Defence, the Qatar Emiri Air Force, and the 12-member Strategic Airlift Capability initiative of NATO and Partnership for Peace nations. U.S. President Barack Obama announced this month that India and the United States have reached a preliminary agreement for the Indian Air Force to acquire 10 C-17s.

http://boeing.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=1523

[Gaffers]

The C-17s we have are leased from the US Military.  They are absolutely pivotal in the type of operations we have conducted over the last 8 years and will continue to provide vital support to operations until at least 2015.

We dont have enough, they are expensive to lease, and they provide a vital capability.  What is so stupid about that?

Why dont we just buy C-17's then? Or am I being thick?

I heard we are not allowed to 

You heard correctly

As the development of the C17 was partially funded by the US Government they "control" who is allowd to purchase as well as who can lease, the aircraft.

UK is in fact the only non-US country flying the C17, which was allowed as a "special concesion" by the US Senate/Congress. Specail acts had to be passed to allow it.

We are allowed to Lease .. but not to buy .... 

The A400M, by the way, is NOT a replacement for the C17 ... but is designed to replace the C130K, VC10 and Tristar ... all very old aircraft well past their use by dates, as  well as the C130J which, although new(ish) has been worked at 4 times it's planned rate for many years ... thus they are also knackered...

The C17 is a Strategic asset, the A300M is designed to be a Tactical asset.

Put simply .. the C17 is too damned expensive (and the yanks won't let us ... part of the conditions of lease... ) to use "in theatre" where the is the risk of it being shot at ... so we need tactical (in theatre) aircraft that WE control to do the job, as the C130J simply can't do it for much longer.

We used it in theatre twice a week cargo runs.  I flew back to the UK on one that was empty going back and took off from Basrah Airport.

We spent a good 60-90 secs running the engines to max thrust before letting go the brakes and the pilot then did a series of heading and speed adjustments until we were out of SAM range.  It was an experience and a half that was.  Plus I have never played volleyball in the back of a plane before 

[Entwood]

My apologies then .. things must have changed even more than I realised in the 2 years since I left ..

Although Basrah is not what I call "in theatre" .... that place is an international airport in effect !!!  I was thinking of very much smaller/isolated strips ...   

[Nickbat]

My apologies then .. things must have changed even more than I realised in the 2 years since I left ..

Although Basrah is not what I call "in theatre" .... that place is an international airport in effect !!!  I was thinking of very much smaller/isolated strips ...   

No worries, Entwood. It was only by chance that I know that as I had been reading through the Boeing press releases earlier looking for the latest on the 787 programme.   

[Gaffers]

My apologies then .. things must have changed even more than I realised in the 2 years since I left ..

Although Basrah is not what I call "in theatre" .... that place is an international airport in effect !!!  I was thinking of very much smaller/isolated strips ...   

This airport is where the UK base was and as such was attacked regularly with rockets, the threat level was substantial and as such the tristars were unable to land there because they lacked the ECM suite reequired due to the threat level

[Entwood]

My apologies then .. things must have changed even more than I realised in the 2 years since I left ..

Although Basrah is not what I call "in theatre" .... that place is an international airport in effect !!!  I was thinking of very much smaller/isolated strips ...   

This airport is where the UK base was and as such was attacked regularly with rockets, the threat level was substantial and as such the tristars were unable to land there because they lacked the ECM suite reequired due to the threat level

Unfortunately I knew Basrah well ....    Although "in the front line" as it were it was far better protected than some of the other more "interesting" places we went.

SAM threat did exist, and the "matrix" indicated what precautions were required, however, at times .. "dumb" frames could and did operate out of there ... but perhaps we "lower mortals" in the "non-shiney" fleet were expendable ..