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Author Topic: geert wilders and Islam  (Read 1322 times)

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jerry

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geert wilders and Islam
« on: 01 December 2010, 17:11:28 »

recently got sent a transcript of wilders' speech to the house of lords of march this year. Now, whilst I certainly do not agree with much of his attitude towards Islam and I confess I do not know enough about the Quran to say whether it really does state that Muslims should seek to take over the world and impose Shariah law or whether this is just certain extremist interpretation of it (just as the "bible"  is interpreted so differently) but much of what he says rings a few bells. Here are a few quotes:

"my party does not have a problem with Muslims as such.There aremany moderate Muslims.`The majority are law abiding..and want to live a peaceful life...that is why I make a clear distinction between the people,the muslims, and the ideology,Islam.there are many moderate Muslims,but there is no such thing as a moderate Islam.....Islam strives for world domination..to exercise jihad...establish shariah law"

"Islam is not merely a religion, it is mainly a totalitarian ideology...wants to dominate all aspects of life...civic law to criminal law...it determines how one should eat,dress and even use the toilet.Oppression of women is good,drinking alcohol is bad"

"I believe that Islam is not compatible with our western way of life. Islam is a threat to western values..equality of men and women..homosexuals and hetrosexuals..the seperation of church and state,freedom of speech....Islam and democracy are not compatible"

"the left is facilitating islamization...the leftist elite is guilty of practising cultural relativism...they are betrayinng our hard won liberties...free speech is under attack...as George Orwell said:"if liberty means anything at all , it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear"

OK, now discuss ;D ;D

a further quote from the original poster:"rebel against liberalism,or continue to die an ignominious death".
Personally, think that claims about Muslims wanting to takeover our western society are exaggerated to say the least (though doubtless that is the aim of the extremists), but the chain of thought about the liberalism of the left actively allowing the erosion of our western values and culture do ring true. Also agree with his claims that democracy and shariah law are indeed not compatible, though both Christianity and the Muslim faith can reside side by side when tolerance and respect are exercised (indeed the Ottoman Empire of old was remarkably tolerant of the pockets of Christianity within its boundries by the accounts I have read).
sorry if its all a bit political for a car forum but very many threads have touched upon this.
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Lizzie_Zoom

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Re: geert wilders and Islam
« Reply #1 on: 01 December 2010, 17:13:47 »

Sorry Jerry but you have placed this in the wrong section :D :D

Place in General Chat ;) ;)
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Elite Pete

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Re: geert wilders and Islam
« Reply #2 on: 01 December 2010, 17:14:10 »

Wrong section old chap ;)
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jerry

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Re: geert wilders and Islam
« Reply #3 on: 01 December 2010, 17:14:47 »

bugger-meant to put under "general discussion" ;D
Admins please move for me? sorry :-[
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Lizzie_Zoom

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Re: geert wilders and Islam
« Reply #4 on: 01 December 2010, 17:21:58 »

They have now :y :y :y :y
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cem_devecioglu

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Re: geert wilders and Islam
« Reply #5 on: 01 December 2010, 17:31:15 »

Quote
recently got sent a transcript of wilders' speech to the house of lords of march this year. Now, whilst I certainly do not agree with much of his attitude towards Islam and I confess I do not know enough about the Quran to say whether

1 it really does state that Muslims should seek to take over the world and impose Shariah law   in a way yes

2 or whether this is just certain extremist interpretation of it no


 (just as the "bible"  is interpreted so differently) but much of what he says rings a few bells. Here are a few quotes:

"my party does not have a problem with Muslims as such.There aremany moderate Muslims.`The majority are law abiding..and want to live a peaceful life...that is why I make a clear distinction between the people,the muslims, and the ideology,Islam.there are many moderate Muslims,
3 but there is no such thing as a moderate Islam.....Islam strives for world domination..to exercise jihad...establish shariah law"   yes

4 "Islam is not merely a religion, it is mainly a totalitarian ideology...wants to dominate all aspects of life...civic law to criminal law...it determines how one should eat,dress and even use the toilet.Oppression of women is good,drinking alcohol is bad"   a big yes

"I believe that Islam is not compatible with our western way of life. Islam is a threat to western values..equality of men and women..homosexuals and hetrosexuals..the seperation of church and state,freedom of speech....

5 Islam and democracy are compatible  ;D ;D (thats my answer)

"the left is facilitating islamization...the leftist elite is guilty of practising cultural relativism...they are betrayinng our hard won liberties...free speech is under attack...as George Orwell said:"if liberty means anything at all , it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear"

OK, now discuss ;D ;D

a further quote from the original poster:"rebel against liberalism,or continue to die an ignominious death".
Personally, think that
6 claims about Muslims wanting to takeover our western society are exaggerated to say the least I'm afraid no

(though doubtless that is the aim of the extremists), but the chain of thought about the liberalism of the left actively allowing the erosion of our western values and culture do ring true. Also agree with his claims that democracy and shariah law are indeed not compatible, though both Christianity and the Muslim faith can reside side by side when tolerance and respect are exercised (indeed the Ottoman Empire of old was remarkably tolerant of the pockets of Christianity  with Christianity yes (that was for an aim) , but for a seperate group of muslims no.. just deadly!

within its boundries by the accounts I have read).
sorry if its all a bit political for a car forum but very many threads have touched upon this.


some may claim , these dont reflect the truth ,

I say "tell to my hat"!!!
« Last Edit: 01 December 2010, 17:32:57 by cem_devecioglu »
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jerry

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Re: geert wilders and Islam
« Reply #6 on: 01 December 2010, 17:39:29 »

geert got slated for comparisons he made between the Quran and Mein Kampf-a comparison Churchill made earlier-but, re democracy and the rights and freedoms we enjoy in the west I can see his point. Do any of us want to  live in a society run by shariah law any more than we would under a fascist state (think Hitler's Third Reich ) or a communist one (think stalin)?
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cem_devecioglu

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Re: geert wilders and Islam
« Reply #7 on: 01 December 2010, 17:48:01 »

Quote
geert got slated for comparisons he made between the Quran and Mein Kampf-a comparison Churchill made earlier-but, re democracy and the rights and freedoms we enjoy in the west I can see his point. Do any of us want to  live in a society run by shariah law any more than we would under a fascist state (think Hitler's Third Reich ) or a communist one (think stalin)?

Jerry, imo stalin is an unlucky example for communist system..  :-/
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albitz

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Re: geert wilders and Islam
« Reply #8 on: 01 December 2010, 18:02:28 »

Can you think of any lucky examples Cem ? :-/

Re Gilders - I think he is right to warn the west to be more careful and keep a wary eye on the march of Islam.
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Richie London

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Re: geert wilders and Islam
« Reply #9 on: 01 December 2010, 18:05:23 »

Quote
Can you think of any lucky examples Cem ? :-/

Re Gilders - I think he is right to warn the west to be more careful and keep a wary eye on the march of Islam.


after the pictures i see on facebook on the turkish defence league. most shocking pics i have ever seen in my life and nothing much shocks me. people who do this are not human  >:( >:( >:(
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cem_devecioglu

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Re: geert wilders and Islam
« Reply #10 on: 01 December 2010, 18:15:46 »

Quote
Can you think of any lucky examples Cem ? :-/

Re Gilders - I think he is right to warn the west to be more careful and keep a wary eye on the march of Islam.

Albs , we have passed over that subject on many threads and many pages of discussion.. I dont see reason to repeat them again.. :y
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albitz

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Re: geert wilders and Islam
« Reply #11 on: 01 December 2010, 18:19:25 »

Fair enough Cem. :y ;D
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