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[feeutfo]

Anyone got one? Worthwhile? Easy to fit? Any agro? Floods?

Heard talk of mechanical, as opposed to electric ones being simplest?  :-/

Has anyone got one of those electronic water conditioners, that wrap round the pipes? Sceptical myself.

[Kevin Wood]

Anyone got one? Worthwhile? Easy to fit? Any agro? Floods?

Yes, Yes, if your water is as hard as ours, Yes, Not if installed correctly (a bit like condensing boilers).

Heard talk of mechanical, as opposed to electric ones being simplest?  :-/

Yes, simplest, but not necessarily best. Electronic ones measure water use and base their regeneration cycle on usage. Mechanical ones regenerate on a fixed schedule, so an electronic model will use salt and water more efficiently, in general. I wouldn't say there's much in it reliability wise. We have a mechanical one that has been working happily for about 14 years. Needs the odd fettle, like an Omega...

Has anyone got one of those electronic water conditioners, that wrap round the pipes? Sceptical myself.

Yep, snake oil.

Don't forget a softener should keep that new bathroom in better condition.

Kevin

[Marks DTM Calib]

yep, great bit of kit.

Not to hard to install (mainly because plumbing is not exactly a hard thing to do).

When locating remember you need:

To be close to the rising main in roder to get maximum benefit
Able to support an overflow outlet
Close to a drain
Able to get salt into it!

I have an electronic metered one which has worked really well for the last 2 years

[joff]

Yep, got both. Have mechanical softener that i fitted myself and the electric wire that raps around the house inlet pipe (that will take about 6 mths normal use to remove lime build up in your system i use a scalewatcher) i fitted that then put the softner in later, all woks fine together as our water is hard, I use a Kinetico water softener works on water pressure to clean its self no filters to buy just salt.

[Gaffers]

Is it realistic to get one and remove when you move on?  Or is the installation too involved in the pipework?

I move house on average every 2 years.

[Marks DTM Calib]

I have one of these:

http://www.eastmidlandswater.com/Details.asp?ProductID=1459

[Kevin Wood]

Is it realistic to get one and remove when you move on?  Or is the installation too involved in the pipework?

I move house on average every 2 years.

It's not much more than a washing machine to plumb in, so, on the face of it, yes. Ours came with us when we moved. It's a question of whether your landlord would be happy with you adding the plumbing?

You will typically need the following for a "traditional" softener:

A check valve on the incoming mains if not already fitted.
A pair of "washing machine" style connectors on the incoming mains to divert the water through the softener.
A valve between these to allow the softener to be bypassed.
An outlet into the foul drain system for the waste water / brine when purging (washing machine style trap and standpipe will do)
An overflow outlet  in case the brine tank overflows.

The slight fly in the ointment is that you want softened water to everything except the drinking water tap on the kitchen sink so finding a location where the softener will fit but allow this without re-routing a load of plumbing can be a challenge.

Kevin

[feeutfo]

I have one of these:

http://www.eastmidlandswater.com/Details.asp?ProductID=1459

That looks a very good price.

[feeutfo]

Intended fitting in the garage, where mains comes in and drain exists from previos washing machine instalation. Flood damage shouldn't be an issue too much then. But running hard water to kitchen will be tricky.

 Is softened water not drinkable? Our tap water tastes like it's been treated umpteen times, can it be any worse? Or is it the minerals needed?
 
Freezing could be an issue in the garage I guess, but we intend fitting a new boiler in the garage too if only the old one would die.


And yes, main reason for fitting is new bathroom, plus we have been using the showers down the gym while the bathroom is in bits, where they use softened water. The difference is remarkable coming back to hard water. Skin feels like we have been out in the sun for weeks after one shower. Dry scalp returns, yuk.

How soft is soft water? I mean I doubt a domestic softener will give same results as the industrial units they must have at the gym for showers and pool etc.

And before I get accused of being gay for joining a gym, we didn't join. We had a two week trial. 

[Entwood]

Latest mechanical ones work on a "water wheel" mechanism that "measures" the amount of water that has flowed through before regeneration starts, unlike the older types that used a fixed cycle.

[Marks DTM Calib]

Household water softeners are equaly as good as the industrial ones.

Put it this way, I can cover the cost of the salt simply by what I save on washing machine liquid alone!

I would go digital electronic though as they are mega reliable and regen in the early hours.

Its not essential to have a hard water tap, the only potnetial issues are with young babies (and then its very questionable as the salt levels are no more than in some domestic supplies around the planet anyway)

[Andy H]

Intended fitting in the garage, where mains comes in and drain exists from previos washing machine instalation. Flood damage shouldn't be an issue too much then. But running hard water to kitchen will be tricky.

Is softened water not drinkable? Our tap water tastes like it's been treated umpteen times, can it be any worse? Or is it the minerals needed?
 
Freezing could be an issue in the garage I guess, but we intend fitting a new boiler in the garage too if only the old one would die.


And yes, main reason for fitting is new bathroom, plus we have been using the showers down the gym while the bathroom is in bits, where they use softened water. The difference is remarkable coming back to hard water. Skin feels like we have been out in the sun for weeks after one shower. Dry scalp returns, yuk.

How soft is soft water? I mean I doubt a domestic softener will give same results as the industrial units they must have at the gym for showers and pool etc.

And before I get accused of being gay for joining a gym, we didn't join. We had a two week trial. 

Salt (sodium chloride) is used to regenerate the granules when they cannot absorb any more calcium.

The theory is that some sodium/sodium chloride ends up in the tapwater. Sodium is implicated in increased risk of heart disease and strokes.

[Marks DTM Calib]

Intended fitting in the garage, where mains comes in and drain exists from previos washing machine instalation. Flood damage shouldn't be an issue too much then. But running hard water to kitchen will be tricky.

Is softened water not drinkable? Our tap water tastes like it's been treated umpteen times, can it be any worse? Or is it the minerals needed?
 
Freezing could be an issue in the garage I guess, but we intend fitting a new boiler in the garage too if only the old one would die.


And yes, main reason for fitting is new bathroom, plus we have been using the showers down the gym while the bathroom is in bits, where they use softened water. The difference is remarkable coming back to hard water. Skin feels like we have been out in the sun for weeks after one shower. Dry scalp returns, yuk.

How soft is soft water? I mean I doubt a domestic softener will give same results as the industrial units they must have at the gym for showers and pool etc.

And before I get accused of being gay for joining a gym, we didn't join. We had a two week trial. 

Salt (sodium chloride) is used to regenerate the granules when they cannot absorb any more calcium.

The theory is that some sodium/sodium chloride ends up in the tapwater. Sodium is implicated in increased risk of heart disease and strokes.

Reality is though that there is bugger all salt left as the flush process shifts it all and what tiny amount that is still there is lost over the first day or so after a regen cycle.

Only an issue if you are on a low sodium diet in reality and then you could use Potassium chloride instead of sodium chloride if you wanted to.

[pscocoa]

an important tip is to make sure the protect the discharge pipe against freezing up as this will prevent proper regeneration.

I have had one of the electronic metering types working on actual usage for 11 years which has been fine apart from a undetected leak on the pipework which caused some damage to kitchen units before it was spotted. We only take drinking water from the kitchen tap and this gets put through filters on kettles etc as the water down here is crap basically .

I think mine is a Tapways unit