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[Varche]

I think you'll find that most expats who live in 'iffy' parts of the world, are pretty hard nosed types who will have gone into the situation with their eyes wide open, and will either have an emergency cash stash and/or a damn good insurance policy! As many people have said they've taken the money and the chance, and as I said before there's no reason why they shouldn't be charged for their repatration!

This country spends billions propping up millions who have never paid into the system, both UK citizens and foriegners.  We pay child benefit to foreigners whose kids don't even live in the UK, we pay winter fuel payments to pensioners living in hot climates, the list goes on.....

These expats arn't the sort who will come back demanding a council flat and benefits.  They'll pick themselves up, dust themselves down and will go out and find another job.  Some will head off abroad again and some won't, but IMO these are the sort of people that the UK should be helping out!!

I agree with the rest of what you said apart from charging for reptriation. I guess we would then be the first country to do that.

I have to take issue with you on winter fuel allowance. Why? Well if you have paid into the system (as pretty well all current pensioners have) and they qualify for winter fuel allowance then they should get it regardless of where they choose to live (be it the darkest coldest depths of Scotland, the Scilly Isles or Spain) I live in Spain and the houses aren't designed for cold weather and it does get cold here. We had lots of snow and minus 14 deg C 5 years ago. Every winter the temp gets down to or below freezing. Try keeping warm without central heating in that. Before you ask, no I don't and won't ever get winter fuel allowance and won't moan about it.

But i do agree with you about looking after "our own". 

[Sir Tigger KC]

OK fair point Varche, and you're right that if people have paid into the system..... Hope it helps with the AC bills though 

Seems that there's an opinion here that expats are abunch of no good mercenary, scrounging scumbags who deserve what their getting, while waiting on their fat arses for the nanny state to come and pick them up.... 

[omegabsw]

I think you'll find that most expats who live in 'iffy' parts of the world, are pretty hard nosed types who will have gone into the situation with their eyes wide open, and will either have an emergency cash stash and/or a damn good insurance policy! As many people have said they've taken the money and the chance, and as I said before there's no reason why they shouldn't be charged for their repatration!

This country spends billions propping up millions who have never paid into the system, both UK citizens and foriegners.  We pay child benefit to foreigners whose kids don't even live in the UK, we pay winter fuel payments to pensioners living in hot climates, the list goes on.....

These expats arn't the sort who will come back demanding a council flat and benefits.  They'll pick themselves up, dust themselves down and will go out and find another job.  Some will head off abroad again and some won't, but IMO these are the sort of people that the UK should be helping out!!

I would have to totally agree with you on most of those points.
Believe it or not the one at the bottom as well.

If people would read my inital post then you will realise that I was more upset about the media attention that they recieved when they got home.
Why should they be portrayed as heros when they got themselves in trouble and had to be bailed out by the British taxpayer?
Nick retaliated with a broad statement which got my back up and I bit.
I never once wanted them to be left out to die in the desert but likewise why should it be taken for granted that my taxes will be used to get these people out of a country that they chose to live and work in, meanwhile im struggling to pay my mortgage, feed and cloth my children and put petrol in my car, but its still ok to tax my earnings, tax me for living in a house and then on top of all that, take a fifth of everything I spend as well?

What would happen if these sort of problems happened in a country like Pakistan or India? We would have to send the whole RAF out to collect our "British citizens" that "chose" to be there.

As mentioned before, why would you want to work in Libya? Maybe its because you work for an oil company, maybe you work for the British goverment. Something tells me that whoever is working out there is doing it, not for the love of the country, not to try and develop the third world, not out on an aid mission but because the financial rewards are great and they are greedy.

I agree with points that everyone has made in this thread but at the end of the day, we all make our own choices in life and in my opinion going to work in Libya is not what I would consider as "Safe" regardless of the recent problems that are goin on at the moment there.

And to go back to the OP's first comment about how the goverment has acted "Shamefully" I disagree. Libya's Goverment has acted shamefully for years, Israel's Goverment has acted shamefully for years Lebanons goverment has acted shamefully for years, as has Palestinian goverment.
These people cannot live side by side without killing each other because of their religious views.
So why is it right that Britons should go and live with them just because its "For the good of the country" and "Third world countries cannot develop without us"
Rubbish, people are greedy for oil and money and so blinkered by religion that they are prepared to kill or die for all of the above!

Globalization and religion will lead to WW3 and we are so deep in it that we will be at the centre of whatever happens, weather we like it or not.

So in the scheme of things dispute and unrest in a North African/Middle Eastern country is not news to me. Likewise getting a few plane loads of British citizens out of a country that has always been hostile to western cultures is not news to me either.

You watch once all this has blown over and these countries finally get new goverments, how many of these goverments are going ro be pro American? None, thats for sure.
I can see some of these weapons that America has sold Egypt, Jordan and the rest of its old Middle Eastern "allies" returning to haunt them one day.

[Kevin Wood]

Regardless of what you think about ex-pats I'd hope we live in a country with the resources to help all its' citizens if they get into difficulty in other parts of the world, regardless of their reason for being there.

What the last couple of days has highlighted is that, regardless of whether the will is there, the capability simply doesn't exist to evacuate a couple of hundred British citizens from a hotspot. 

What a ridiculous spectacle it was that the government had to go cap in hand round the charter companies until they found someone who would operate a flight. Even then, they clearly had no other options open as the "technical problem" with the flight and ensuing delay showed.

I will travel abroad in future with the kind of feeling you get when you've just gone for the cheapest insurance quote you could find - "FFS I hope I don't have to rely on this.".

Kevin

[cem_devecioglu]

I think you'll find that most expats who live in 'iffy' parts of the world, are pretty hard nosed types who will have gone into the situation with their eyes wide open, and will either have an emergency cash stash and/or a damn good insurance policy! As many people have said they've taken the money and the chance, and as I said before there's no reason why they shouldn't be charged for their repatration!

This country spends billions propping up millions who have never paid into the system, both UK citizens and foriegners.  We pay child benefit to foreigners whose kids don't even live in the UK, we pay winter fuel payments to pensioners living in hot climates, the list goes on.....

These expats arn't the sort who will come back demanding a council flat and benefits.  They'll pick themselves up, dust themselves down and will go out and find another job.  Some will head off abroad again and some won't, but IMO these are the sort of people that the UK should be helping out!!

I would have to totally agree with you on most of those points.
Believe it or not the one at the bottom as well.

If people would read my inital post then you will realise that I was more upset about the media attention that they recieved when they got home.
Why should they be portrayed as heros when they got themselves in trouble and had to be bailed out by the British taxpayer?
Nick retaliated with a broad statement which got my back up and I bit.
I never once wanted them to be left out to die in the desert but likewise why should it be taken for granted that my taxes will be used to get these people out of a country that they chose to live and work in, meanwhile im struggling to pay my mortgage, feed and cloth my children and put petrol in my car, but its still ok to tax my earnings, tax me for living in a house and then on top of all that, take a fifth of everything I spend as well?

What would happen if these sort of problems happened in a country like Pakistan or India? We would have to send the whole RAF out to collect our "British citizens" that "chose" to be there.

As mentioned before, why would you want to work in Libya? Maybe its because you work for an oil company, maybe you work for the British goverment. Something tells me that whoever is working out there is doing it, not for the love of the country, not to try and develop the third world, not out on an aid mission but because the financial rewards are great and they are greedy.

I agree with points that everyone has made in this thread but at the end of the day, we all make our own choices in life and in my opinion going to work in Libya is not what I would consider as "Safe" regardless of the recent problems that are goin on at the moment there.


And to go back to the OP's first comment about how the goverment has acted "Shamefully" I disagree. Libya's Goverment has acted shamefully for years, Israel's Goverment has acted shamefully for years Lebanons goverment has acted shamefully for years, as has Palestinian goverment.
These people cannot live side by side without killing each other because of their religious views.
So why is it right that Britons should go and live with them just because its "For the good of the country" and "Third world countries cannot develop without us"
Rubbish, people are greedy for oil and money and so blinkered by religion that they are prepared to kill or die for all of the above!

Globalization and religion will lead to WW3 and we are so deep in it that we will be at the centre of whatever happens, weather we like it or not.

So in the scheme of things dispute and unrest in a North African/Middle Eastern country is not news to me. Likewise getting a few plane loads of British citizens out of a country that has always been hostile to western cultures is not news to me either.

You watch once all this has blown over and these countries finally get new goverments, how many of these goverments are going ro be pro American? None, thats for sure.

I can see some of these weapons that America has sold Egypt, Jordan and the rest of its old Middle Eastern "allies" returning to haunt them one day.

you get my vote

I'm not sure that most of you are well aware of that, but an eastern or an african country where religious masses make up the most and they are very poor this place definitely must ring the alarm bells of danger in your brain.. They are dangerous for even the same religion.. let alone another religion..

human life is precious and I dont think no amount of money is valuable than your life that you cant spend after death..   Also what I dont understand is Britain is enough rich to give adequate life standards for your citizens , why risk your life in a hostile country ? (except if your not forced by the govt) :-/

[Varche]

cem "Also what I dont understand is Britain is enough rich to give adequate life standards for your citizens , why risk your life in a hostile country "

The answer to that is a combination of several things.
1. Britain is a highly technological country with lots of specialist knowledge. e.g. the mini subs that were used to fix the Texas Gulf oil problem. I have a friend who works them. Other countries want that expertise.
 
2.Britain may be a rich country (certainly all the Spanish I know believe Britain to be mega rich compared to Spain for example) but the folk there are taxed to death and sadly have very poor state pensions(one of the worst in Europe) to look forward to. It is natural to try and improve ones situation for the future.

3. Britain is a leading culture in the must have with the media bombarding you day in and day out to upgrade to, buy this, have the other so people feel they have to "earn more" be it doing a second job or overtime or one overseas that pays a bit more.

the reality is Britain once was a rich country but a combination of living beyond our means, over extending ourselves in wars, banks gambling away the country means we are now just well off not "rich". 

[Banjax]

Frankly I have been shocked to the core by the views of some folk on here about getting our nationals out. I can only put it down to insularity ( To spell that out pull up the drawbridges and man the battlements and keep Johnny Foreigner OUT of our precious little isle)

I can guarantee that no other country will have its forums full of folk saying we shouldn't have "rescued" our guys, let em rot, they are mercenaries so they can shoot their own way out, they chose that lifestyle etc etc. No what those countries have is a strong sense of National Pride and they just get on and do the right thing for their nationals. If the Israelis had had folk there they would have been the first to get them out. Sadly Britain just doesn't seem to have that sort of pride in itself.

As to the cost Ryanair can send a plane from Britain to Southern Spain and back and make a profit on £70 a head  , so say £45,000 round trip. Absolute peanuts compared with the waste every day in government depts, food bought and binned because it has reached its sell by date. 

As for my brother in law. He did his time on the oilfields, used the money to pay off a chunk of his mortgage and now works in Britain still paying tax and contributing to the economy. I can't see anything wrong with that.

yes there does seem to be great intolerance in this country for people who come from abroad and live  and work in the UK, I've no problem with it.

Now lets say we were under a dictatorship here where ordinary human rights, education, free speech, travel etc were denied to us by our despot leader and yet he happily allowed foreigners in on massive wages allowing them the freedoms denied us, I'm guessing we'd rather wish they F'd off..........we dont even like people coming here doing the crap jobs if you read this forum 

these aren't great and noble pioneers in the main they're just exploiting one countries lack of resources (in this case tech and education) to enrich their lives - its a simple enough equation, i dont condemn these people but somedays you need to wake up and smell the coffee 

[cem_devecioglu]

cem "Also what I dont understand is Britain is enough rich to give adequate life standards for your citizens , why risk your life in a hostile country "

The answer to that is a combination of several things.
1. Britain is a highly technological country with lots of specialist knowledge. e.g. the mini subs that were used to fix the Texas Gulf oil problem. I have a friend who works them. Other countries want that expertise.
 
2.Britain may be a rich country (certainly all the Spanish I know believe Britain to be mega rich compared to Spain for example) but the folk there are taxed to death and sadly have very poor state pensions(one of the worst in Europe) to look forward to. It is natural to try and improve ones situation for the future.

3. Britain is a leading culture in the must have with the media bombarding you day in and day out to upgrade to, buy this, have the other so people feel they have to "earn more" be it doing a second job or overtime or one overseas that pays a bit more.
the reality is Britain once was a rich country but a combination of living beyond our means, over extending ourselves in wars, banks gambling away the country means we are now just well off not "rich". 

1. imo this expertise must be sold to who doesnt want to kill you (and this is valid for my citizens also)

2.your country is expensive..so all your pensioners are invited to live here

3.definitely unnecessary..capitalist system pushes us to consume whatever we can buy..

[Nickbat]

Frankly I have been shocked to the core by the views of some folk on here about getting our nationals out.

Me, too. 

Hence my comments. 

[Dishevelled Den]

Regardless of what you think about ex-pats I'd hope we live in a country with the resources to help all its' citizens if they get into difficulty in other parts of the world, regardless of their reason for being there.

What the last couple of days has highlighted is that, regardless of whether the will is there, the capability simply doesn't exist to evacuate a couple of hundred British citizens from a hotspot. 

What a ridiculous spectacle it was that the government had to go cap in hand round the charter companies until they found someone who would operate a flight. Even then, they clearly had no other options open as the "technical problem" with the flight and ensuing delay showed.

I will travel abroad in future with the kind of feeling you get when you've just gone for the cheapest insurance quote you could find - "FFS I hope I don't have to rely on this.".

Kevin

What the last couple of days has highlighted is that, regardless of whether the will is there, the capability simply doesn't exist to evacuate a couple of hundred British citizens from a hotspot. 

Leaving aside the ethical arguments expressed up to this point the critical truth about that comment should ring loudly and clearly in everyone's ear.

This country is a shadow of its former self, a country where the capacity for government to act on behalf of its citizens in difficulty has diminished alarmingly to the stage where it seems that national business is being conducted on a make-do-and-mend basis in the hope that nothing occurs to bring us to the point of over-balance.

[Amigo]

Ok. I hav'nt read all the posts as i lack the patience but have had a quick scan & listened to both arguements on the radio news. One side says break 'em they knew the risks. The other side says we should stick by our own & bring them home & out of trouble. I have conflicting beliefs with both sides as they each have valid points.

   All i can add is given the state of our economy it's no surprise some brits with the relative talents choose to work abroad. If there are no positions here & they have a family/mortgage to provide for & no positions are available here what else can they do but work elsewhere? They should be shuttled out but should pay for it as they.ve been making the money.

   Sorry to all you politics fans but if our country can't provide work when others can then we only have our own governments to blame for the mess we're in & the further messes they lead to. Politics is a farce & to blame for the difference between export/import.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Ok. I hav'nt read all the posts as i lack the patience but have had a quick scan & listened to both arguements on the radio news. One side says break 'em they knew the risks. The other side says we should stick by our own & bring them home & out of trouble. I have conflicting beliefs with both sides as they each have valid points.

   All i can add is given the state of our economy it's no surprise some brits with the relative talents choose to work abroad. If there are no positions here & they have a family/mortgage to provide for & no positions are available here what else can they do but work elsewhere? They should be shuttled out but should pay for it as they.ve been making the money.

   Sorry to all you politics fans but if our country can't provide work when others can then we only have our own governments to blame for the mess we're in & the further messes they lead to. Politics is a farce & to blame for the difference between export/import.

Well I cannot fault you on that point of view Guy

[omegabsw]

Ok. I hav'nt read all the posts as i lack the patience but have had a quick scan & listened to both arguements on the radio news. One side says break 'em they knew the risks. The other side says we should stick by our own & bring them home & out of trouble. I have conflicting beliefs with both sides as they each have valid points.

   All i can add is given the state of our economy it's no surprise some brits with the relative talents choose to work abroad. If there are no positions here & they have a family/mortgage to provide for & no positions are available here what else can they do but work elsewhere? They should be shuttled out but should pay for it as they.ve been making the money.

   Sorry to all you politics fans but if our country can't provide work when others can then we only have our own governments to blame for the mess we're in & the further messes they lead to. Politics is a farce & to blame for the difference between export/import.

Well I cannot fault you on that point of view Guy

Same here 

Also I just want to add that I would love to have the skills to be able to work abroad and earn a fortune. I don't think that I could ever work somewhere like Libya tho, regardless of pay.

[Sir Tigger KC]

Saw on the news tonight that HMS Cumberland has taken on 200 passengers and is steaming for Malta, where they will disembark.  HMS Cumberland will then steam to Great Britain to be decommissioned..... Makes you proud, dosn't it?

[Vamps]

Saw on the news tonight that HMS Cumberland has taken on 200 passengers and is steaming for Malta, where they will disembark.  HMS Cumberland will then steam to Great Britain to be decommissioned..... Makes you proud, dosn't it?

[/highlight]

I felt the same, and we are losing our planes as well, and an aircraft carrier, as I said on another thread, I think we need to look at being more self sufficient, certainly not relying on other Countries, particularly France, for our defence......Worried, yes......