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Author Topic: aftermarket stereo with bose  (Read 5802 times)

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Ian_D

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Re: aftermarket stereo with bose
« Reply #30 on: 19 June 2008, 17:58:33 »

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It may be the input to the amp, but it is still the OUTPUT stage of the head unit. Same problem, just earlier on in the chain.

I thought that just after I posted it  ;D

Never Mind!
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TheBoy

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Re: aftermarket stereo with bose
« Reply #31 on: 19 June 2008, 18:14:28 »

Whilst it may be possible, its ultimately not worth the effort.  If you want to change any part of the bose system for whatever reason, rip the lot out :)
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zirk

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Re: aftermarket stereo with bose
« Reply #32 on: 20 June 2008, 01:53:40 »

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Whilst it may be possible, its ultimately not worth the effort.  If you want to change any part of the bose system for whatever reason, rip the lot out :)

Seems like a NO then (again)., ...(sorry just walked in).

« Last Edit: 20 June 2008, 01:56:02 by zirk »
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davlad22

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Re: aftermarket stereo with bose
« Reply #33 on: 20 June 2008, 04:33:45 »

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Whilst it may be possible, its ultimately not worth the effort.  If you want to change any part of the bose system for whatever reason, rip the lot out :)

Seems like a NO then (again)., ...(sorry just walked in).

Well, all i'll say Zirk is, unless you have a go, you'll never know!  :y

Dave, thanks for your input and advice, do you remember the Denon DCA-800???(not sure what it is internally, i've put a link at the bottom of this post to some guy who's took one apart) We put one in another car the other day, 6 channel mosfet amp, 4x50w rms + 2x50w or 1x100w sub channel.

.....Had it working absolutely lovely with all built in crossovers etc. Was thinking, if the bose compatibility thing appears to be such a problem, something like this, presuming she runs quite happily at 2 ohms, with a new headunit with dedicated preouts, would make a nice quality alternative solution to pulling all the doors apart. Also allowing a gradual 'upgrade' if you found you wanted to change the speakers/cable in future.

Oh and an answer to your enquiry on the potential popularity of an aftermarket loom for bose/omega.....if the CCR2006's keep breaking then we might have no option!

......So in case anybody didn't get my jist in the original post, in simple terms, if I want to know what a piece of hifi sounds like, I go and buy it.  ;)

and the link...

http://ampguts.realmofexcursion.com/Denon_DCA-800/ nice bit of kit I think.
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zirk

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Re: aftermarket stereo with bose
« Reply #34 on: 20 June 2008, 14:49:25 »

Quote
[
Dave, thanks for your input and advice, do you remember the Denon DCA-800???(not sure what it is internally, i've put a link at the bottom of this post to some guy who's took one apart) We put one in another car the other day, 6 channel mosfet amp, 4x50w rms + 2x50w or 1x100w sub channel.

.....Had it working absolutely lovely with all built in crossovers etc. Was thinking, if the bose compatibility thing appears to be such a problem, something like this, presuming she runs quite happily at 2 ohms, with a new headunit with dedicated preouts, would make a nice quality alternative solution to pulling all the doors apart. Also allowing a gradual 'upgrade' if you found you wanted to change the speakers/cable in future.

Oh and an answer to your enquiry on the potential popularity of an aftermarket loom for bose/omega.....if the CCR2006's keep breaking then we might have no option!

......So in case anybody didn't get my jist in the original post, in simple terms, if I want to know what a piece of hifi sounds like, I go and buy it.  ;)

and the link...

http://ampguts.realmofexcursion.com/Denon_DCA-800/ nice bit of kit I think.

Actually, I bought 2 of those about 6 months ago (I only actually wanted 1 but the guy was selling as a job lot), It was heading for my MV6 to replace the not so good 2006 set up, Big amps (in size) no where to put the thing (Estate), Denon were re knowned for there quality in the Hi Fi world, so Im guessing would sound really good with the right speakers.

Hmmm, got me thinking now.
 
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Dave DND

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Re: aftermarket stereo with bose
« Reply #35 on: 20 June 2008, 16:25:57 »

The Denon amps are a truly nice piece of kit.

(Still think they are wasted on the BOSE speakers though.)

If you are going to go to the effort of putting in some decent amps, then why not go the full distance and replace with some equally good speakers?

Else its like putting a large supercharger on the MV6 engine and then running it on remoulds !!
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davlad22

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Re: aftermarket stereo with bose
« Reply #36 on: 20 June 2008, 19:10:24 »

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Actually, I bought 2 of those about 6 months ago (I only actually wanted 1 but the guy was selling as a job lot), It was heading for my MV6 to replace the not so good 2006 set up, Big amps (in size) no where to put the thing (Estate), Denon were re knowned for there quality in the Hi Fi world, so Im guessing would sound really good with the right speakers.

Hmmm, got me thinking now.
 
Blimey! Chances of that! Well matey, we put this one in a '91 Lotus Elan which is roughly the size of my hand, so hopefully it might fit in your mig estate!!!

The whole install was a pain in the a$$ taking aaaagggggesss but after custom making a piece of board to bolt into the boot, rebuild the doors, packing out with dynamat, fabricating mdf speaker mounts, new speaker cable to doors, passive crossovers, spare wheel sub etc etc etc I can tell you for a fibreglass car, sounded brilliant and kicks a fair bit of arse.

What I might be tempted to do in your position is build a custom carpet covered MDF enclosure over that rhs wheel arch that the amp could fix to leaving the rest of the boot usable. The bose 'sub' is commonly mounted in the lhs cubby, if you were to get one of those for 'stealth' or orignality, or try a pioneer spare wheel sub like we did. Might as well change speakers for nice newies given that you'd have to run new speaker cables. Do all that and I think you'd have some really nice sounds. Oh...did I mention finding a very long weekend to do it!

Dave, it would still be possible to upgrade the bose system gradually though perhaps. Say, replace the faulty/crappy h/u to start with, find that after some time, maybe it cooks the amp(!?!), Replace the amp with one as explained above, then if unhappy with speakers, replace these at a later date. It could be done over a length of time rather than tackle the whole lot together. We aren't all as brave as The Boy!
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Dave DND

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Re: aftermarket stereo with bose
« Reply #37 on: 21 June 2008, 08:00:44 »

If you attempt it is stages, every time something goes bang it will cost big bucks. If one component of the system blows, it has the potential to take out the entire system.

I would advise all or nothing.
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zirk

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Re: aftermarket stereo with bose
« Reply #38 on: 21 June 2008, 14:34:36 »

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Quote
Some people ears associate distortion as being Loud, then by turning down the volume a couple of db’s gives the effect of being greatly reduced in volume, but in fact its just the ear determine the difference between a clean and distorted sound, with  the system reaching its limitations (i.e. Squaring the waveform).

You may think I’m waffling on a bit here, but the real point I’m try to make is that unlike most things today variable, Audio modules are not designed for Plug and Play without consequence results.

If you really want to do the Head Unit to Bose thing properly, you going to need the following.

Dual Beam Oscilloscope, a decent 4 Ohm load, a quality Volt and Impedance meter, and of course a Bose set up and the Target Head Unit. That way you can measure the Peak or Peak to Peak levels going into 4 Ohms, and with some simple maths, calculate the RMS volt levels (0.7071 DC levels at that impedance) and determine the correct audio and impedance levels when then inputting the HU to the Bose Amp, then again measure the New HU into 4 Ohms, then make the necessary wire wound resistor array to suit the Donner Head Unit.

I will firstly say that everything I know about electronics is self taught from guess / experimenting / reading stuff on the web.  :-[
Now, I would be interested to actually carry out them tests. I’m new to oscilloscopes. Is a Dual Beam Oscilloscope the same as a dual trace? If it is I’ve got two collecting dust, I haven't got round to using yet, so this sounds like a good excuse to dig them out!  :)

If you used wire wound resistors, would they act as a low pass filter? Just thinking about them acting like a coil/inductor? Again, if I’m honest, I’ve know idea if it would have this effect or not, just a question really!

Now I know impedance matching is important on the output stage (esp when output transformers are used like in valve amps), but I didn’t know it was as important on the input to an amp?

I also didn’t realise that the headunit could potentially be seeing a dead short when powering an amp! I always assumed it would be the other way round, and that if anything the amp wouldn't have enough of load  to drive  :-/

Look forward to reading peoples opinions / answers on this topic!  :y


Hi Ian, if you really are interested in doing some checks on this, then PM me and I'll try and do a guide for it (don't really want to bore people on here with the details).

Dual Beam or Dual Trace Scopes, meaning 2 Scope inputs, just makes it easier for input and output measurements at the same time.

I mentioned wire wound resistors coz I'm assuming that the Bose HU output levels are going to be a couple of Watts Rms?, so the Wire Wound Resistor bit (Not a Coil) is purely for heat dissipation reasons. They will have little or no effect at Audio frequencies.

You’re also going to need a constant sound reference, i.e., an Audio sound test CD or Cassette, so you that you’re working within the correct Dynamic Range and the Head Room of the HU, I use to find Dolby Test Cassettes were good for this sort of stuff (400Hz at 0 db referenced across the entire Tape rather than tracks).

As Dave say's a good source of learning is the old local Library, paying attention to Ohms Law (VIR) and Power (PVA) is a good place to start, and in particular, Scope measurements, i.e., how to calculate, Modulation, Voltage, Frequencies, effects across loads etc, and calculating RMS level of waveforms (Root Mean Square, its the bit that if you was to flatten a Peak variable waveform into its DC equivalent), all good stuff and interesting, assuming that’s your Cup of Tea of course.

Regards Chris.
« Last Edit: 21 June 2008, 14:37:32 by zirk »
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tmx

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Re: aftermarket stereo with bose
« Reply #39 on: 21 June 2008, 17:04:50 »

DCA-800 eh i feel a project on the horizon once im bored with my bose which will be rather soon i think!!!
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