Fixed penalty notice for a bulb out ?

[Dishevelled Den]

Just consulted HC this is what it states

113

You MUST

* ensure all sidelights and rear registration plate lights are lit between sunset and sunrise
* use headlights at night, except on a road which has lit street lighting. These roads are generally restricted to a speed limit of 30 mph (48 km/h) unless otherwise specified
* use headlights when visibility is seriously reduced (see Rule 226)

Yes looking at the Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations 1989 there would seem to be room for manoeuvre here (there doesn't seem to have been any amendment made to the original stipulations on the use of headlamps - although without the actual paper in front of me I find it difficult to wade through the various sub-paragraphs and amendments as I hate reading from a screen).

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1989/1796/regulation/25/made

There may be additional factors not made clear by Big A's sister to him - in any case it would be helpful to know what the Constable noted on the penalty notice as being the reason for its issue.

[OOMV6]

Just consulted HC this is what it states

113

You MUST

* ensure all sidelights and rear registration plate lights are lit between sunset and sunrise
* use headlights at night, except on a road which has lit street lighting. These roads are generally restricted to a speed limit of 30 mph (48 km/h) unless otherwise specified
* use headlights when visibility is seriously reduced (see Rule 226)

Bloody stupid rule. So you can drive in a lit town with just sidelights on!    Headlights when dark, whenever, should be the rule.

[Big_Al]

Just consulted HC this is what it states

113

You MUST

* ensure all sidelights and rear registration plate lights are lit between sunset and sunrise
* use headlights at night, except on a road which has lit street lighting. These roads are generally restricted to a speed limit of 30 mph (48 km/h) unless otherwise specified
* use headlights when visibility is seriously reduced (see Rule 226)

Yes looking at the Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations 1989 there would seem to be room for manoeuvre here (there doesn't seem to have been any amendment made to the original stipulations on the use of headlamps - although without the actual paper in front of me I find it difficult to wade through the various sub-paragraphs and amendments as I hate reading from a screen).

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1989/1796/regulation/25/made

There may be additional factors not made clear by Big A's sister to him - in any case it would be helpful to know what the Constable noted on the penalty notice as being the reason for its issue.

"obligatory lights not working"       WPC     issued the ticket 

[freecall666]

on same lines i got pulled over years ago going into boston and was pulled up, have to say this about 8 miles before a lorry threw up a stone and hit my windscreen and it cracked the screen from top to bottom, thinking bad enough that that had happened and having to get a new one, so carried on home, back to police they pulled me over and said (did you know your windscreen is legal) said yes but it just happend and going to get it fixed in the morning, said that dose not matter you cannot drive with the screen in this state and gave me a fine on the spot and a summons to for for the fine, £65. so now had to get new screen and pay a fine.

[Lazydocker]

Just consulted HC this is what it states

113

You MUST

* ensure all sidelights and rear registration plate lights are lit between sunset and sunrise
* use headlights at night, except on a road which has lit street lighting. These roads are generally restricted to a speed limit of 30 mph (48 km/h) unless otherwise specified
* use headlights when visibility is seriously reduced (see Rule 226)

Yes looking at the Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations 1989 there would seem to be room for manoeuvre here (there doesn't seem to have been any amendment made to the original stipulations on the use of headlamps - although without the actual paper in front of me I find it difficult to wade through the various sub-paragraphs and amendments as I hate reading from a screen).

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1989/1796/regulation/25/made

There may be additional factors not made clear by Big A's sister to him - in any case it would be helpful to know what the Constable noted on the penalty notice as being the reason for its issue.

"obligatory lights not working"       WPC     issued the ticket 

Is it definitely a Main Beam failure and not Dipped Beam? If so then IIRC it's not an "Obligatory Light"

That said, is it worth arguing? May be better to just accept it I would also add that if you intend to get involved you need to make sure she has told you the complete truth about everything that happened, including whether the friends were being gobby

Must admit, if it was me I would be tempted to appeal (unofficially at first)

[Dishevelled Den]

Just consulted HC this is what it states

113

You MUST

* ensure all sidelights and rear registration plate lights are lit between sunset and sunrise
* use headlights at night, except on a road which has lit street lighting. These roads are generally restricted to a speed limit of 30 mph (48 km/h) unless otherwise specified
* use headlights when visibility is seriously reduced (see Rule 226)

Yes looking at the Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations 1989 there would seem to be room for manoeuvre here (there doesn't seem to have been any amendment made to the original stipulations on the use of headlamps - although without the actual paper in front of me I find it difficult to wade through the various sub-paragraphs and amendments as I hate reading from a screen).

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1989/1796/regulation/25/made

There may be additional factors not made clear by Big A's sister to him - in any case it would be helpful to know what the Constable noted on the penalty notice [/highlight]as being the reason for its issue.

"obligatory lights not working"       WPC     issued the ticket 

That could have been a bit more specific in my view

Light or lights and which one of the obligatory lights?

Irrespective of what is considered to be an obligatory light and in what circumstances it must be used, the following stipulations would seem to be quite specific;

Maintenance of lamps, reflectors, rear markings and devices

23.—(1) No person shall use, or cause or permit to be used, on a road a vehicle unless every lamp, reflector, rear marking and device to which this paragraph applies is in good working order and, in the case of a lamp, clean.

(2) Save as provided in paragraph (3), paragraph (1) applies to–
(a)every– .
(i)front position lamp, .
(ii)rear position lamp, .
(iii)headlamp, .
(iv)rear registration plate lamp, .
(v)side marker lamp, .
(vi)end-outline marker lamp, .
(vii)rear fog lamp//..........

From:http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1989/1796/regulation/23/made


Although interestingly, from the same Regulation;

(3) Paragraph (2) does not apply to–


c)a defective lamp, reflector, dim-dip device or headlamp levelling device on a vehicle in use on a road between sunrise and sunset, if any such lamp, reflector or device became defective during the journey which is in progress or if arrangements have been made to remedy the defect with all reasonable expedition;

So there may indeed be room to manoeuvre.

It seems to me that this matter is not entirely straightforward and, providing there has been no aggro directed towards the detecting officer by either the driver of the vehicle or indeed any of the passengers, then I would be inclined to contact the officer concerned and ask for a further explanation of precisely why the notice was given - in what after all seems to me to be a case where advice, rather than sanction, would have been the better way forward.

[GastronomicKleptomaniac]

Is it possible that she (or one of her passengers) might have failed the attitude test?

Seems very harsh - but then discretion is slowly being taken away from the police on the streets, to the point that they'll be hauled in the office and asked to explain why they haven't issued enough tickets/ stop and accounts/ what colour pants are you wearing forms...

[Dishevelled Den]

,,,,//Seems very harsh - but then discretion is slowly being taken away from the police on the streets, to the point that they'll be hauled in the office and asked to explain why they haven't issued enough tickets/ stop and accounts/ what colour pants are you wearing forms...

I'm sad to see the way things are developing Klepto.

The police, as a body, are making a rod for their own backs if they intend to put the fulfilment of statistical tables ahead of performing real work so streets are safe for people to use.

The police need to reassure the public that they are acting in good faith for the benefit of them and not the statisticians.

[BiodieselOmega]

If this car was on a lit street wouldn't it be an offence to use main beam headlamps???
therefore her testing the light's before her journey would be an offence in itself..
Stick a complaint in to the duty inspector

[Big_Al]

Oh dear !     as asked above  . .   the story is not exactly as I was first told so looks a little different now.

Sis, had just dropped the last of her 3 friends off in Chelmsford & was in the car by herself.  BUT . . . it was  the offside Dipped bulb that was out & she was on a 40MPH  stretch of road. 

Told her to pay it  . . . . end of .   sorry for the confusion.

Last word ,  sis told me she asked the officer if she could call the AA to replace the bulb . No was the reply , but she could drive the car home 

Something ain;t right there surely

[Crazycarzowner]

That's very harsh Al, I have pulled many a car for having the odd light out. Mainly its a way in just to stop the vehicle to look at other possible offences i.e. Drink drive and such. But once I'm happy everything is in order I let them on their way with verbal advise.

I know that some say we have ticket targets, in some ways its true i.e. if your a traffic cop then you ain't doing your job if you don't give out tickets. We don't have targets as such, but we have to show some willing. But unless what the subject is doing is dangerous i.e mobile phone, dangerous loads, dangerous vehicles, excessive speed (off the top of me head) common sense prevails.

[mantahatch]

Oh dear !     as asked above  . .   the story is not exactly as I was first told so looks a little different now.

Sis, had just dropped the last of her 3 friends off in Chelmsford & was in the car by herself.  BUT . . . it was  the offside Dipped bulb that was out & she was on a 40MPH  stretch of road. 

Told her to pay it  . . . . end of .   sorry for the confusion.

Last word ,  sis told me she asked the officer if she could call the AA to replace the bulb . No was the reply , but she could drive the car home 

Something ain;t right there surely

So let me get this right, the police woman would not ler her fix the car, but said it was OK for her to drive. That really stinks, and is surely contradicting the ticket and I would be complaining if it was me. At least give them more paperwork to do, they want to waste your time, perhaps you should waste theres.

I have this site bookmarked http://www.hampshire.police.uk/Internet/contact/How+to+make+a+complaint.htm I know it is a different polce area, but may give you an idea.

[Lazydocker]

Hmmm... Still seems harsh to me and worthy of an appeal, unless she admitted that she already knew it was out before the journey

[Dishevelled Den]

Oh dear !     as asked above  . .   the story is not exactly as I was first told so looks a little different now.

Sis, had just dropped the last of her 3 friends off in Chelmsford & was in the car by herself.  BUT . . . it was  the offside Dipped bulb that was out & she was on a 40MPH  stretch of road. 

Told her to pay it  . . . . end of .   sorry for the confusion.

Last word ,  sis told me she asked the officer if she could call the AA to replace the bulb . No was the reply , but she could drive the car home 

Something ain;t right there surely

That's a shame Big A; your sister happened to deal with an officer who decided to take that course of action but many officers would take the view that driver of such a vehicle should be aware of this type of fault - car being driven at night, off-side dipped beam out- decreased spread of lighting pattern and so on.

Many other officers I know would have warned her of the fault and given her the opportunity to have it rectified against production for subsequent examination.  Hell, when I was in uniform (some time ago now) I would have given her the benefit of having it repaired as I believed that there was merit in giving everyone a chance where possible.

In relation to the Act, the offence is absolute and the Constable dealt with it in the manner she thought appropriate – not in the way many of us would have dealt with it, but in the way she ultimately, and quite correctly, did.

In relation to Manta's suggestion that she should make a complaint regarding the conduct of the Constable issuing the notice I don't think it would be justified and is indeed spurious, as there seems little doubt now that the notice was issued in appropriate circumstances: In any case, the time for such an appeal was at the time of the detection in my view.

There is no requirement for police to permit roadside repairs in lieu of dealing with any offences and as far as I remember, the police cannot seize a vehicle for the reasons of it being in an un-roadworthy condition or prohibit its use, given the nature of this particular fault.

[bluebuss]

Going on what you have written I am disgusted, but not surprised in the slightest. The modern police are doing there utmost to alienate the general public. I wonder if they where trying for drink driving and where annoyed they did not get it, so "had" to find something wrong.

I wonder how some of these guys sleep at night. Probably very well on there inflated salaries.

Couple of points, was it in town, and did her journey take her on roads that required main beam ? if not I would be complaining. She could argue it would be dangerous to test main beam headlights in town/city before driving off. That said does the car have bulb failure system ? was there a warning on the dash.

Even the corrupt French police give you a chance to change the bulb at the side of the road. Top tip when dealing with French police, never ever pay in cash, allways offer a credit card. 9 times out of 10 they will send you on your way. Now if that is not corrupt officers I don't know what is.

always ask for a receipt, sometimes if you offer the card they'll escort you a card machine.....just dont speed...