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[tunnie]

3.6 is a push rod lump, totally different beast I believe 

[Webby the Bear]

The whole timing marks vs the timing tool is intersting to me.

Before I started college having done one cambelt job on my play car, I assumed that every engine irrespective of type (SOHC, DOHC) would have to have a timing tool kit. However on most of the cars we do timing belt jobs on (all 4 pots) we rely on the timing marks and it always seems very wrong to me not to use a timing tool or at least something of similar ilk to the )( tool the V6 requires. Perhaps it's a cost thing... obviously would be major expense to have different tools for lots of different engines..... I think I'll enquire when I'm back.

Ps, to the OP definitely take the advice and get the proper tool. I was just talking about the jobs we do on old wrecks. 

[TheBoy]

The whole timing marks vs the timing tool is intersting to me.

Before I started college having done one cambelt job on my play car, I assumed that every engine irrespective of type (SOHC, DOHC) would have to have a timing tool kit. However on most of the cars we do timing belt jobs on (all 4 pots) we rely on the timing marks and it always seems very wrong to me not to use a timing tool or at least something of similar ilk to the )( tool the V6 requires. Perhaps it's a cost thing... obviously would be major expense to have different tools for lots of different engines..... I think I'll enquire when I'm back.

Ps, to the OP definitely take the advice and get the proper tool. I was just talking about the jobs we do on old wrecks. 

Most engines, esp SOHC and DHOC, its not infineately adjustable. Its either bang on, or a tooth or more out, and obvious.

GM 54 degree V6 is infinately adjustable, so you can never tell how far out it is.

[Webby the Bear]

The whole timing marks vs the timing tool is intersting to me.

Before I started college having done one cambelt job on my play car, I assumed that every engine irrespective of type (SOHC, DOHC) would have to have a timing tool kit. However on most of the cars we do timing belt jobs on (all 4 pots) we rely on the timing marks and it always seems very wrong to me not to use a timing tool or at least something of similar ilk to the )( tool the V6 requires. Perhaps it's a cost thing... obviously would be major expense to have different tools for lots of different engines..... I think I'll enquire when I'm back.

Ps, to the OP definitely take the advice and get the proper tool. I was just talking about the jobs we do on old wrecks. 

Most engines, esp SOHC and DHOC, its not infineately adjustable. Its either bang on, or a tooth or more out, and obvious.

GM 54 degree V6 is infinately adjustable, so you can never tell how far out it is.

infinately adjustable by the idlers, for example? yeah i see what you mean about it being bang on or obviously out... but still if i was in a dealership i'd want to have a tool.

i should've also mentioned that, mainly on the french shite boxes weirdly, the camshaft has a built in timing tool e.g. a hole in the sprocket lines up with a hole in the head and you know its bang on when you can get a certain sized allen key in.

interesting!

[Andy B]

....
Most engines, esp SOHC and DHOC, its not infineately adjustable. Its either bang on, or a tooth or more out, and obvious.

GM 54 degree V6 is infinately adjustable, so you can never tell how far out it is.

The 1700 SOHC diseasal lump in my Astra used just a taper to hold the cam pulley to the cam ie no woodruff key (I believe other manufacturers do something similar  ), so that was infinitely adjustable too. That needed a specific tool to set the pulley to the cam ....... I just didn't separate them. 

[TheBoy]

....
Most engines, esp SOHC and DHOC, its not infineately adjustable. Its either bang on, or a tooth or more out, and obvious.

GM 54 degree V6 is infinately adjustable, so you can never tell how far out it is.

The 1700 SOHC diseasal lump in my Astra used just a taper to hold the cam pulley to the cam ie no woodruff key (I believe other manufacturers do something similar  ), so that was infinitely adjustable too. That needed a specific tool to set the pulley to the cam ....... I just didn't separate them. 

Indeed, surprisingly common. Omega TD has a similar setup, and thats how you adjust cam timing. Their is, obviously, a special timing tool for that.

[TheBoy]

The whole timing marks vs the timing tool is intersting to me.

Before I started college having done one cambelt job on my play car, I assumed that every engine irrespective of type (SOHC, DOHC) would have to have a timing tool kit. However on most of the cars we do timing belt jobs on (all 4 pots) we rely on the timing marks and it always seems very wrong to me not to use a timing tool or at least something of similar ilk to the )( tool the V6 requires. Perhaps it's a cost thing... obviously would be major expense to have different tools for lots of different engines..... I think I'll enquire when I'm back.

Ps, to the OP definitely take the advice and get the proper tool. I was just talking about the jobs we do on old wrecks. 

Most engines, esp SOHC and DHOC, its not infineately adjustable. Its either bang on, or a tooth or more out, and obvious.

GM 54 degree V6 is infinately adjustable, so you can never tell how far out it is.

infinately adjustable by the idlers, for example? yeah i see what you mean about it being bang on or obviously out... but still if i was in a dealership i'd want to have a tool.

i should've also mentioned that, mainly on the french shite boxes weirdly, the camshaft has a built in timing tool e.g. a hole in the sprocket lines up with a hole in the head and you know its bang on when you can get a certain sized allen key in.

interesting!

Most 16v twin cam setups have a wedge to lock the cams together, similar to the V6 red or green ones. Nothing, normally, to lock the crank, or a tool to measure the timing.

[car5car]

The whole timing marks vs the timing tool is intersting to me.

Before I started college having done one cambelt job on my play car, I assumed that every engine irrespective of type (SOHC, DOHC) would have to have a timing tool kit.

Manufacturers are just trying to make auto mechanic's life hard. This is what they are thinking about every day and night. They are very creative.
"Let us make mechanics buy $300 special tool kit"
"Let us save $3 on transmission dipstick"
I could check engine codes by turning key 3 times on my 97 Jeep Cherokee. The only difference between 97 and 98 is that you cannot get codes w/o code reader on 98.

[Rods2]

I looked at it when I fitted a new cambelt kit as part of my blown head gasket engine rebuild, that the cost of the locking kit was less than I was saving in doing it myself.

From the post above, if by doing it accurately you get a 3mpg improvement say from an average of 21mpg to 24mpg over 40,000 miles that is 237 gallons less fuel used. That makes not using the kit rather expensive! At over £6 for a gallon of fuel here that is £1422 or about $2133.

My cam locking kit cost just over £60 or $90!

Save £60 and spend over the next 4 years an extra £1362! Doesn't make sense to me not to. 

[car5car]

If anybody wants to buy american timing tool kit, here is where:
http://www.autotoolworld.com/product.asp?itemid=149219&gclid=CIyPvMymvrQCFQWonQodGQ4AHg

[dbug]

If anybody wants to buy american timing tool kit, here is where:
http://www.autotoolworld.com/product.asp?itemid=149219&gclid=CIyPvMymvrQCFQWonQodGQ4AHg

$940 - you've got to be joking   You can buy new in UK for ~ £150 - got mine 2nd hand, hardly used for ~£50.

[Andy B]

If anybody wants to buy american timing tool kit, here is where:
http://www.autotoolworld.com/product.asp?itemid=149219&gclid=CIyPvMymvrQCFQWonQodGQ4AHg

Christ!  You can buy mine for a bargain $500 ........ half retail price! 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l2736&_nkw=vauxhall+v6+cam+lock+kit This brand new. 

[feeutfo]

The whole timing marks vs the timing tool is intersting to me.

Before I started college having done one cambelt job on my play car, I assumed that every engine irrespective of type (SOHC, DOHC) would have to have a timing tool kit.

Manufacturers are just trying to make auto mechanic's life hard. This is what they are thinking about every day and night. They are very creative.
"Let us make mechanics buy $300 special tool kit"
"Let us save $3 on transmission dipstick"
I could check engine codes by turning key 3 times on my 97 Jeep Cherokee. The only difference between 97 and 98 is that you cannot get codes w/o code reader on 98.

I think quite the opposite tbh.

The omega drive by wire engines have the pedal trick. Something gm introduced as a get by in the absence of tech2. Not all country's are as we'll off to afford dealer prices and back up.

I consider the timing marks on the rear cam belt cover to be the mechanics equivalent of the pedal trick, a sort of get by, again, in the absence of the proper factory kit.

Once you've used a locking kit, and indeed tech2, you'll realise the advantages of both.
They save a great deal of time, and accuracy in set up and use generally.

You pays your money...

[feeutfo]

See recommended suppliers

[car5car]

Christ!  You can buy mine for a bargain $500 ........ half retail price! 

Sorry, I don't British pounds, only dollars.
Well, if I buy yours for $500, I can resell it here for $800...
I used special rope to hold sprockets and I can sell it cheap! Looks like new!
I will include dirty rag, which I used to hold timing belt on crank sprocket for free!
Wait a minute, did I remove it before installing front cover or not?