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[feeutfo]

Bothered?

[feeutfo]

but if you ask for Conti and Micheline pilot sports (they are installed on mostly BMW series 5 or 7) I didnt hear any complaint..
 
except 7 series for relatively shorter life..

Pointless post. Go buy a Beemer.

why you dont

Because they suit you so well. Cem.

One friend programmer (woman) bought a brand new 525d last week.. nice car.. but not for me..
 
but imo BMW may well suit you as bimmer groups mostly discuss tramlining

which proves the point. Useless info.

[D]

Can I just say. This friend of yours may be a very good driver, but certainly having differential grip on the 2 axles wont help anyone.

In fact on a previous car I had, having two different brands on the 2 axles would set the TC/ESP off on a constant basis. It was a known problem on the forums with an easy cure. Go for the same make of tyre all around.

Lastly, why do you attribute the spin to the winter tyres? If the car has poor grip on any axle and it looses traction, then the car will spin off. The fact that other cars didn't maybe due to the fact that they are different cars, FWD maybe, dont have differential grip, weren't driving like an idiot, oil patch etc etc.

I drove all of 2010 on winter tyres on my Focus ST because I was too lazy to get it changed. They were Cooper weathermasters, not a premium brand at all. And other than slightly mushier handling, a bit more noise and slightly more wear, I had no issues. I certainly didnt die or loose control or even slip or slide around. This was throughout the summer months.

Currently London temps are around 6-9 deg C. I have driven both my Elites to work over the last week. One has SC3's, 2 yrs old the other has Dunlop Winter 3Ds 24 months old. Both have been through 2 lots of changes and storage. Both cars have had WIM setup. SC3s break traction, the Dunlops dont. Same driver, similar style of driving, same route, similar temps. And not a drop of snow to be seen. My personal choice is the Dunlop, just feels more secure and planted. You could take that as real world experience or ignore it if you wish.

BTW I dont have tramlining issues unless the road surface is poor.

[Rods2]

And how does driving ability affect tyre grip? Btw?

Go on a police skid pan (or on the London Transport skid pan) and drive cars (buses) running bald tyres on a mixture of water/oil/detergent and you're learn to drive at speed with almost no tyre grip.  Try it - I have (including the buses!), and then talk about driving ability affecting tyre grip.  Driving ability is about retaining control with little tyre grip

so let me get this right, your saying, weather you realise it or not, that the better driver you are, the more grip you have in your tyres.
That's pretty ignorant even for you.

Now, if she had lost the car in a spin, you might have an argument on the second point, but as she caught it without issue, and has been on more sporting events, driving courses and track days than anyone I know, I'd day she's more competent than you.

Oh, and attention span apportioned according to relevance of post, btw.

Is that a pun or a mis-spelling 

You didn't get it right - thats not what i was saying - just goes to reinforce your lack of understanding on this subject.

As to her competance compared to mine, sporting events, driving courses and track days mean nothing.  You are not aware of my driving history or competance - you are effectively saying you have seen a bigger dog than me without any information as to what I have seen.

For your information I spent a number of years actively competing in motor sport - rallying (MGB, TR4 and Cooper S), racing - saloons (cooper "S"), sports (Ferrari Dino), Formula Ford and Formula 3.  Have driven diverse vehicles from a Chiefton Tank, Le Mans winning GT40, to a Williams Formula 1 car.   No doubt, despite my advanced years, but with my experience, I could still scare the proverbial out of your competant friend by driving safely but quickly on a race track.

I won't be posting on this topic any more - you can now continue to flog a dead horse in my absence Mr Pixie 

Totally agree as smooth driving means you can push much harder. Sliding friction is about 65% of static friction. In this thread are some examples of static v sliding friction for tyres and a very interesting table from Finland on braking distances for different tyres and abs v non-abs.

http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.php/5359-Motion-friction-vs-static-friction-and-where-are-the-coefficient-values-from

[OOMV6]

if some people  from snowy countries read this thread (ı'm sure they read) laughing with their ars* .. macho men+summer tyre vs winter tyre on snow    For those who dont have the budget its ok.. keep the car at home.. else 

Cem you probably know I'm the usually the first to mess about with these things if there's an advantage to be had. I fully accept their performance to be as you say in winter conditions. I ACCEPT WHAT TOU SAY.

...but hers the thing, you refuse to accept any other position other than your own, when your a quarter of the way round the planet googling any fact that suits your argument.
If English weather in the south turned consistently for the worse I'd fit them immediately. If I went to EASTERN Europe in winter, I'd fit them immediately.

Western Europe no, uk no, what you refuse accept is that we don't get the weather to warrant winters. 2 or 3 weeks aside, IF it snows. "iF" and if it doesn't, summer tyres will do in cold temp.

Where's Nicbat, vote ukip I say, and good riddance to Euopean Bullshit.


We are not an east European country. Fact! Although I'm sure google will find something for you to suggest otherwise.

Oh yes you would.

I think France, Belgium, Luxembourg, Netherlands, parts of Germany are considered to be Western Europe.  I would also add that this winter so far has been relatively mild, but there also appears to be no consistency in the weather anymore. Marseille had snow in 2009,  - first time in years. But places like the Ardennes in Belgium, the Eifel in Germany, areas of the Lorraine in France regularly see temps of -10 during winter. In the Ardennes + Eifel, -15 is quite normal in winter.


Oh .... and having winter tyres on all four corners is the law.

[feeutfo]

if some people  from snowy countries read this thread (ı'm sure they read) laughing with their ars* .. macho men+summer tyre vs winter tyre on snow    For those who dont have the budget its ok.. keep the car at home.. else 

Cem you probably know I'm the usually the first to mess about with these things if there's an advantage to be had. I fully accept their performance to be as you say in winter conditions. I ACCEPT WHAT TOU SAY.

...but hers the thing, you refuse to accept any other position other than your own, when your a quarter of the way round the planet googling any fact that suits your argument.
If English weather in the south turned consistently for the worse I'd fit them immediately. If I went to EASTERN Europe in winter, I'd fit them immediately.

Western Europe no, uk no, what you refuse accept is that we don't get the weather to warrant winters. 2 or 3 weeks aside, IF it snows. "iF" and if it doesn't, summer tyres will do in cold temp.

Where's Nicbat, vote ukip I say, and good riddance to Euopean Bullshit.


We are not an east European country. Fact! Although I'm sure google will find something for you to suggest otherwise.

Oh yes you would.

I think France, Belgium, Luxembourg, Netherlands, parts of Germany are considered to be Western Europe.  I would also add that this winter so far has been relatively mild, but there also appears to be no consistency in the weather anymore. Marseille had snow in 2009,  - first time in years. But places like the Ardennes in Belgium, the Eifel in Germany, areas of the Lorraine in France regularly see temps of -10 during winter. In the Ardennes + Eifel, -15 is quite normal in winter.


Oh .... and having winter tyres on all four corners is the law.

Pedant!

Your over playing it, I have said and a agree, where there's a need, I'd fit them. Be happy.

[OOMV6]

if some people  from snowy countries read this thread (ı'm sure they read) laughing with their ars* .. macho men+summer tyre vs winter tyre on snow    For those who dont have the budget its ok.. keep the car at home.. else 

Cem you probably know I'm the usually the first to mess about with these things if there's an advantage to be had. I fully accept their performance to be as you say in winter conditions. I ACCEPT WHAT TOU SAY.

...but hers the thing, you refuse to accept any other position other than your own, when your a quarter of the way round the planet googling any fact that suits your argument.
If English weather in the south turned consistently for the worse I'd fit them immediately. If I went to EASTERN Europe in winter, I'd fit them immediately.

Western Europe no, uk no, what you refuse accept is that we don't get the weather to warrant winters. 2 or 3 weeks aside, IF it snows. "iF" and if it doesn't, summer tyres will do in cold temp.

Where's Nicbat, vote ukip I say, and good riddance to Euopean Bullshit.


We are not an east European country. Fact! Although I'm sure google will find something for you to suggest otherwise.

Oh yes you would.

I think France, Belgium, Luxembourg, Netherlands, parts of Germany are considered to be Western Europe.  I would also add that this winter so far has been relatively mild, but there also appears to be no consistency in the weather anymore. Marseille had snow in 2009,  - first time in years. But places like the Ardennes in Belgium, the Eifel in Germany, areas of the Lorraine in France regularly see temps of -10 during winter. In the Ardennes + Eifel, -15 is quite normal in winter.


Oh .... and having winter tyres on all four corners is the law.

Pedant!

Your over playing it, I have said and a agree, where there's a need, I'd fit them. Be happy.

 
Happy? Oh, yes. Happy you agree  Really I am. 

[Andy H]

 
please tell her to use on all 4 tyres

Best tyres go on the rear cem. So she is correct. Summer tyres all round at 13c. As a winter tyre expert in uk weather, I thought you of all people should know that.

winter and summer tyres can not be mixed.. if you do, its your risk..

I'd expect under steer below a cirtain temp/temps reversed. But no. She was quite happy in Snow, with primacy on the front.

They are now concerned how the tires will store, given the out of range heat cycles.


The fact they are on rear axle only is an easy get out though.

different tyres on front and rear different grip levels .. no surprise .. been there done that in the past.. soon you learn..
 
they can be stored in a dark place..

So she would have spun at much lower speed if winters all round? That's comforting?

Sounds like the best tyres were on the front (at 13 degC)
With four winter tyres on the fronts would have turned to jelly at the same time as the rears, the steering would have felt awful and she might have had the sense to ease of the throttle. 

[Del Boy]

I've never had winter tyres on any of my cars, excluding a 7 Series BMW that had one Pirelli SOTTOZERO on. I've never crashed in the snow *touch wood*, and have on most occasions been driving around with budget tyres on. I honestly find, if you drive to the road conditions you'll be ok. No doubting the fact winter tyres must help, although I wouldn't buy them personally.

[Cliffo B]

Well "Winter tyres dangerous" I find difficult to accept from my experience which is:-
Had them on Migsy since I put her on the road to replace Miggy (beginning of Dec)
Since then Migsy's done 3000mls which includes 7 journeys to the East coast (round trip of appox 140 mls
Return trip I do as rule very late evening on fairly traffic free roads under I think the term is spirited driving conditions
During this time the roads have been I would say varied from wintry to dry
I can omly say that during this time I've found them to be excellent at road holding in all conditions so long as common sense is used
This has inspired a great deal of confidence in me
I find it difficult to come to terms that winter tyres are unsafe
Possibly some are
I think like all tyres it may depend on which tyres they are
Migsy at present has 15" VX Steel wheels with 195 65 R15 Michelin Alpin tyres on
These will be comeing off in a few weeks time
Can't wait as their not pleasing to the eye
But I think their possibly safer on winter/icey roads
And the steelies are much more able to resist potholes
And cheaper to replace if damaged
Migsy will then have Miggy's 18" Sportstars on
Yippee can't wait    

[dbug]

Well "Winter tyres dangerous" I find difficult to accept from my experience which is:-
Had them on Migsy since I put her on the road to replace Miggy (beginning of Dec)
Since then Migsy's done 3000mls which includes 7 journeys to the East coast (round trip of appox 140 mls
Return trip I do as rule very late evening on fairly traffic free roads under I think the term is spirited driving conditions
During this time the roads have been I would say varied from wintry to dry
I can omly say that during this time I've found them to be excellent at road holding in all conditions so long as common sense is used
This has inspired a great deal of confidence in me
I find it difficult to come to terms that winter tyres are unsafe
Possibly some are
I think like all tyres it may depend on which tyres they are
Migsy at present has 15" VX Steel wheels with 195 65 R15 Michelin Alpin tyres on
These will be comeing off in a few weeks time
Can't wait as their not pleasing to the eye
But I think their possibly safer on winter/icey roads
And the steelies are much more able to resist potholes
And cheaper to replace if damaged
Migsy will then have Miggy's 18" Sportstars on
Yippee can't wait

Winter tyres per se are not dangerous so agree with you - and glad you are pleased with yours - but I bet you fitted 4 of them   Remember those countries that legislate their use state all 4 tyres, irrespective of climatic conditions over a fixed time period!
Its mixing 2 summers and 2 winters which is stupid and potentially dangerous by unbalancing car under certain conditions.  There's a load of crap been posted about performance temperatures (ok at one temp but not at +1 deg C etc) - thats also rubbish.  If you run winters at higher ambient temperatures you will lose a bit of grip compared to summers, but the main issue will be one of rapid wear, as someone stated aove.
I know I said I wouldn't post on this topic again, but sorry couldn't resist it

[feeutfo]

Well "Winter tyres dangerous" I find difficult to accept from my experience which is:-
Had them on Migsy since I put her on the road to replace Miggy (beginning of Dec)
Since then Migsy's done 3000mls which includes 7 journeys to the East coast (round trip of appox 140 mls
Return trip I do as rule very late evening on fairly traffic free roads under I think the term is spirited driving conditions
During this time the roads have been I would say varied from wintry to dry
I can omly say that during this time I've found them to be excellent at road holding in all conditions so long as common sense is used
This has inspired a great deal of confidence in me
I find it difficult to come to terms that winter tyres are unsafe
Possibly some are
I think like all tyres it may depend on which tyres they are
Migsy at present has 15" VX Steel wheels with 195 65 R15 Michelin Alpin tyres on
These will be comeing off in a few weeks time
Can't wait as their not pleasing to the eye
But I think their possibly safer on winter/icey roads
And the steelies are much more able to resist potholes
And cheaper to replace if damaged
Migsy will then have Miggy's 18" Sportstars on
Yippee can't wait

Winter tyres per se are not dangerous so agree with you - and glad you are pleased with yours - but I bet you fitted 4 of them   Remember those countries that legislate their use state all 4 tyres, irrespective of climatic conditions over a fixed time period!
Its mixing 2 summers and 2 winters which is stupid and potentially dangerous by unbalancing car under certain conditions.  There's a load of crap been posted about performance temperatures (ok at one temp but not at +1 deg C etc) - thats also rubbish.  If you run winters at higher ambient temperatures you will lose a bit of grip compared to summers, but the main issue will be one of rapid wear, as someone stated aove.
I know I said I wouldn't post on this topic again, but sorry couldn't resist it

So not "that" stupid then.

[dbug]

Well "Winter tyres dangerous" I find difficult to accept from my experience which is:-
Had them on Migsy since I put her on the road to replace Miggy (beginning of Dec)
Since then Migsy's done 3000mls which includes 7 journeys to the East coast (round trip of appox 140 mls
Return trip I do as rule very late evening on fairly traffic free roads under I think the term is spirited driving conditions
During this time the roads have been I would say varied from wintry to dry
I can omly say that during this time I've found them to be excellent at road holding in all conditions so long as common sense is used
This has inspired a great deal of confidence in me
I find it difficult to come to terms that winter tyres are unsafe
Possibly some are
I think like all tyres it may depend on which tyres they are
Migsy at present has 15" VX Steel wheels with 195 65 R15 Michelin Alpin tyres on
These will be comeing off in a few weeks time
Can't wait as their not pleasing to the eye
But I think their possibly safer on winter/icey roads
And the steelies are much more able to resist potholes
And cheaper to replace if damaged
Migsy will then have Miggy's 18" Sportstars on
Yippee can't wait

Winter tyres per se are not dangerous so agree with you - and glad you are pleased with yours - but I bet you fitted 4 of them   Remember those countries that legislate their use state all 4 tyres, irrespective of climatic conditions over a fixed time period!
Its mixing 2 summers and 2 winters which is stupid and potentially dangerous by unbalancing car under certain conditions.  There's a load of crap been posted about performance temperatures (ok at one temp but not at +1 deg C etc) - thats also rubbish.  If you run winters at higher ambient temperatures you will lose a bit of grip compared to summers, but the main issue will be one of rapid wear, as someone stated aove.
I know I said I wouldn't post on this topic again, but sorry couldn't resist it

So not "that" stupid then.

Stupid to mix them - would you mix suspension parts?  Probably not I guess as thats also stupid

[feeutfo]

Well "Winter tyres dangerous" I find difficult to accept from my experience which is:-
Had them on Migsy since I put her on the road to replace Miggy (beginning of Dec)
Since then Migsy's done 3000mls which includes 7 journeys to the East coast (round trip of appox 140 mls
Return trip I do as rule very late evening on fairly traffic free roads under I think the term is spirited driving conditions
During this time the roads have been I would say varied from wintry to dry
I can omly say that during this time I've found them to be excellent at road holding in all conditions so long as common sense is used
This has inspired a great deal of confidence in me
I find it difficult to come to terms that winter tyres are unsafe
Possibly some are
I think like all tyres it may depend on which tyres they are
Migsy at present has 15" VX Steel wheels with 195 65 R15 Michelin Alpin tyres on
These will be comeing off in a few weeks time
Can't wait as their not pleasing to the eye
But I think their possibly safer on winter/icey roads
And the steelies are much more able to resist potholes
And cheaper to replace if damaged
Migsy will then have Miggy's 18" Sportstars on
Yippee can't wait

Winter tyres per se are not dangerous so agree with you - and glad you are pleased with yours - but I bet you fitted 4 of them   Remember those countries that legislate their use state all 4 tyres, irrespective of climatic conditions over a fixed time period!
Its mixing 2 summers and 2 winters which is stupid and potentially dangerous by unbalancing car under certain conditions.  There's a load of crap been posted about performance temperatures (ok at one temp but not at +1 deg C etc) - thats also rubbish.  If you run winters at higher ambient temperatures you will lose a bit of grip compared to summers, but the main issue will be one of rapid wear, as someone stated aove.
I know I said I wouldn't post on this topic again, but sorry couldn't resist it

So not "that" stupid then.

Stupid to mix them - would you mix suspension parts?  Probably not I guess as thats also stupid

I might if I didn't know any better. which wouldn't make me stupid.

It's a bit like "who want to be a million air" you either know the answers, or you don't. Well, passed the first round anyway.

Lets face it, the weather and temp cought her out. It wasn't winter tyre weather that day, and it wasn't summer tyre weather the day before perhaps. Your right though, it wouldn't have happened if she had summer tyres on the back. ...that particular day.

I don't know exactly what happened beyond the details given , as I wasn't there. But to say with such certainty what did happen and that the owner is stupid because she's female and has no throttle control on one hand, then say it completely unbalances the car to fit odd tyres per axle, because it will only loose "a bit" of grip. Doesn't really add up, does it!

[dbug]

Well "Winter tyres dangerous" I find difficult to accept from my experience which is:-
Had them on Migsy since I put her on the road to replace Miggy (beginning of Dec)
Since then Migsy's done 3000mls which includes 7 journeys to the East coast (round trip of appox 140 mls
Return trip I do as rule very late evening on fairly traffic free roads under I think the term is spirited driving conditions
During this time the roads have been I would say varied from wintry to dry
I can omly say that during this time I've found them to be excellent at road holding in all conditions so long as common sense is used
This has inspired a great deal of confidence in me
I find it difficult to come to terms that winter tyres are unsafe
Possibly some are
I think like all tyres it may depend on which tyres they are
Migsy at present has 15" VX Steel wheels with 195 65 R15 Michelin Alpin tyres on
These will be comeing off in a few weeks time
Can't wait as their not pleasing to the eye
But I think their possibly safer on winter/icey roads
And the steelies are much more able to resist potholes
And cheaper to replace if damaged
Migsy will then have Miggy's 18" Sportstars on
Yippee can't wait

Winter tyres per se are not dangerous so agree with you - and glad you are pleased with yours - but I bet you fitted 4 of them   Remember those countries that legislate their use state all 4 tyres, irrespective of climatic conditions over a fixed time period!
Its mixing 2 summers and 2 winters which is stupid and potentially dangerous by unbalancing car under certain conditions.  There's a load of crap been posted about performance temperatures (ok at one temp but not at +1 deg C etc) - thats also rubbish.  If you run winters at higher ambient temperatures you will lose a bit of grip compared to summers, but the main issue will be one of rapid wear, as someone stated aove.
I know I said I wouldn't post on this topic again, but sorry couldn't resist it

So not "that" stupid then.

Stupid to mix them - would you mix suspension parts?  Probably not I guess as thats also stupid

I might if I didn't know any better. which wouldn't make me stupid.

It's a bit like "who want to be a million air" you either know the answers, or you don't. Well, passed the first round anyway.

Lets face it, the weather and temp cought her out. It wasn't winter tyre weather that day, and it wasn't summer tyre weather the day before perhaps. Your right though, it wouldn't have happened if she had summer tyres on the back. ...that particular day.

I don't know exactly what happened beyond the details given , as I wasn't there. But to say with such certainty what did happen and that the owner is stupid because she's female and has no throttle control on one hand, then say it completely unbalances the car to fit odd tyres per axle, because it will only loose "a bit" of grip. Doesn't really add up, does it!

Millionaire 

Says it all really - no more to add.

You can have the last word now as always