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Yes

33 (53.2%)

No

29 (46.8%)

Total Members Voted: 44

[05omegav6]

Given the course this thread is on, I would like to change my vote to "No".

The true spirit of OOF can be found in the unconditional help and advice offered in the mechanical sections and also in abundance at the Meets IMHO.

I assume Lizzie is referring to Guffers Cambelt meet a couple of years ago, which I can safely say was one of the best weekends of the year, with lots of work being done, and also alot of socialising as well

Perhaps it is time to put General Discussion, (and this thread with it), to bed

[Kevin Wood]

And there would still be meets, of course, but, from what I can gather, they are becoming sparsely attended.

After attending one way back, I think I know why

It's odd that you say that, because meeting up with members of this forum in real life has to be the best part of it, for me. Whether it be people popping round for a Tech 2 session and a cuppa, a few of us locals heading out for a curry every so often, the larger cam belt meets or the camping trips, I've made some great friends, had a good laugh and can't recall a single word said in anger.

 

I'm afraid Kevin I must not comment further on this.   

OK, then let's leave it at that, and not allow those who don't attend said meets to insinuate that OOF meets are anything other than a friendly gathering of like-minded petrol heads keen to help each other. I am sure the regular attendees will vouch for this.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

And there would still be meets, of course, but, from what I can gather, they are becoming sparsely attended.

After attending one way back, I think I know why

It's odd that you say that, because meeting up with members of this forum in real life has to be the best part of it, for me. Whether it be people popping round for a Tech 2 session and a cuppa, a few of us locals heading out for a curry every so often, the larger cam belt meets or the camping trips, I've made some great friends, had a good laugh and can't recall a single word said in anger.

 

I'm afraid Kevin I must not comment further on this.   

OK, then let's leave it at that, and not allow those who don't attend said meets to insinuate that OOF meets are anything other than a friendly gathering of like-minded petrol heads keen to help each other. I am sure the regular attendees will vouch for this.

........and that is the problem at the moment.  You express an opinion, my personal experience which was very real for me at the time that in the past was agreed by other members, only to be criticised for doing so.  Kevin you should know me better by now and all I can say is your quote of "allow those who don't attend said meets to insinuate that OOF meets are anything other than a friendly gathering of like-minded petrol heads keen to help each other."  does not reflect what I am doing, nor I am afraid my personal experience. I speak as I find. I can do no more, and are purely responding to the point made by TB that "The national meets (Lakes and Newent) were packed (as were York and EA), the day meets busy." in the context of his opinion of where the OOF is going wrong.

I was purely responding and suggesting that I know why from MY experience, not assumed, not made up and certainly not with malicious intent.

But of course, as I have said in context of historical events, all empires eventually turn in on themselves and rip themselves apart, imploding under accusation and counter-accusation by the parties contained within.  The OOF is at that point with all this that is transpiring now, and I am almost in tears over it.

Perhaps it is time to call it a day for me yet again. The pain is now not worth the gain.

[Mv8.com]

Lizzie I don't think anyone has your good self down as a politcrat. Maybe yours is a subject for another time. All water under the bridge now and it's a pleasure to have you back.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Lizzie I don't think anyone has your good self down as a politcrat. Maybe yours is a subject for another time. All water under the bridge now and it's a pleasure to have you back.

Thanks for that Mv8.com, and that is the problem, I discuss and study politics as I do history, but I am no politcrat (to quote you) as I am not that devious a character

I just want fun and interesting things to do like being involved in engineering and transport, like miggies.

[Elite Pete]

Personally I think the forum has past it's sell by date. It's still a brilliant place for info but the forum as it used to be has changed and I don't think it can be reversed. There are a lot of people on OOF that are so arguementative and think that their way is the only way and don't know when to stop, i'm a bit like that sometimes myself

[Mv8.com]

Lizzie I don't think anyone has your good self down as a politcrat. Maybe yours is a subject for another time. All water under the bridge now and it's a pleasure to have you back.

Thanks for that Mv8.com, and that is the problem, I discuss and study politics as I do history, but I am no politcrat (to quote you) as I am not that devious a character

I just want fun and interesting things to do like being involved in engineering and transport, like miggies.

yep, that's what we all want I think, ESP admin. Lately though, those types of threads have been destroyed by this topic of polotics. Hence the intentions of H21, if I understand it correctly.
Ime it stems from gendis and the poloticrats within. Then it spread to technical issues with the negative missery it inspires. Frustration brews and the lack of progress and it becomes a waiste of time, nobody learns anything and animosity rules.

The subject of polotics itself may or may not be an issue, but undoubtady those that embrace it so aggressively, are! And are arsing the the hole deal up for everyone else.

[mantahatch]

Lizzie I don't think anyone has your good self down as a politcrat. Maybe yours is a subject for another time. All water under the bridge now and it's a pleasure to have you back.

Thanks for that Mv8.com, and that is the problem, I discuss and study politics as I do history, but I am no politcrat (to quote you) as I am not that devious a character

I just want fun and interesting things to do like being involved in engineering and transport, like miggies.

yep, that's what we all want I think, ESP admin. Lately though, those types of threads have been destroyed by this topic of polotics. Hence the intentions of H21, if I understand it correctly.
Ime it stems from gendis and the poloticrats within. Then it spread to technical issues with the negative missery it inspires. Frustration brews and the lack of progress and it becomes a waiste of time, nobody learns anything and animosity rules.

The subject of polotics itself may or may not be an issue, but undoubtady those that embrace it so aggressively, are! And are arsing the the hole deal up for everyone else.

Reading that word made me think of new word, or maybe I have read it somewhere and it just came back to me. Any way substitue your word Polotics for Bolocktics and we could even have Bolockticians. As that is what most of them speak anyway.

So, did I make it up or have I stolen the idea  knowing my luck it was made up years ago and I just dragging it out of the old grey matter 

[Kevin Wood]

........and that is the problem at the moment.  You express an opinion, my personal experience which was very real for me at the time that in the past was agreed by other members, only to be criticised for doing so.  Kevin you should know me better by now and all I can say is your quote of "allow those who don't attend said meets to insinuate that OOF meets are anything other than a friendly gathering of like-minded petrol heads keen to help each other."  does not reflect what I am doing, nor I am afraid my personal experience. I speak as I find. I can do no more, and are purely responding to the point made by TB that "The national meets (Lakes and Newent) were packed (as were York and EA), the day meets busy." in the context of his opinion of where the OOF is going wrong.

I was purely responding and suggesting that I know why from MY experience, not assumed, not made up and certainly not with malicious intent.

But of course, as I have said in context of historical events, all empires eventually turn in on themselves and rip themselves apart, imploding under accusation and counter-accusation by the parties contained within.  The OOF is at that point with all this that is transpiring now, and I am almost in tears over it.

Perhaps it is time to call it a day for me yet again. The pain is now not worth the gain.

.. and that particular part of my comment was not aimed at your post as much as at STMO's, to be honest, and I apologise that you clearly read it differently to how I intended.

In my view, though, you haven't spoken as you found, in my eyes. STMO (who has, as far as I recall, never attended a meet) starts mumbling that attendance its going down and you reinforce it by implying that there's some sort of obvious reason for it. Fodder for the rumour mill that TheBoy eluded to in his post IMHO.

I'm simply arguing that that isn't my experience of any of the Omega meets. I believe I was at the meet in question and, whilst a lot of us had a very busy day, it was a great example of the spirit of OOF in action. So much so, that we went and drank the bar dry that night and were back sorting out the couple of member's cars that were still in bits the next day! I'm sure many of us got in trouble with our other halves for spending an entire weekend fettling with Omegas but such was the camaraderie, IMHO.

I don't believe there is some malaise that is keeping people away from meets, and I expect to be proved right at Terbert's meet on May bank holiday. It would be great to see you there, actually, Lizzie, because I'm sure your first impression was not an accurate one.

[Marks DTM Calib]

I personaly couldn't give a toss either way

[Kevin Wood]

I personaly couldn't give a toss either way

That's about what the voting suggests too...

[Rods2]

Personally, I think politics is being made a scapegoat for all that is wrong with OOF.

I'm a political animal and like to express my opinion and do so by creating and commenting on political threads. After Nickbat and Albs, I'm probably third for the number of these threads that have been created in recent times on politics and economics. How many arguments have I had? NONE.

Why? For two reasons, arguments never achieve anything all they do in intrench each respective position, they bring as a public forum OOF into disrepute and it remains a discussion if you don't get personal and each time you comment you add something constructive to support what you are saying then it generally stays at the discussion level.

I don't expect everybody to agree with me, in fact the treads would be boring if they did, I quite happy to remain friends and agree to disagree at times. Once or twice people have been a nasty, but it is only very occasionally and I personally prefer to walk away than to wash dirty linen in public.

Very often when somebody has a pop it is due to other reasons, they have other non-OOF underlying problems and OOF has been used to as an outlet for this. Unfortunate, but we all after a bad day tend to shout at the wife and dog or dog and wife. It is human nature to take things out on those things closest to us. So maybe part of the problem is that some people are spending too much time on OOF.

Now I think it is fair to say that me and cem are never going to agree politically, but we had a big long thread on state control of production v capitalism. Both of us were making long comments on our respective positions, we never argued and respected each others opinions. Several people commented that they had enjoyed reading the long dialogs. Once we had reached the end of our points of view, me and cem agreed to disagree and left the thread as friends. This is how it should be. I've also had many long discussions with Lizzie and she is not only very factual but IMHO is very fair and eloquent in the way she writes and presents things and personally I think she is a credit to OOF and the place if better for her return.

The problems with OOF is not public politics but personal politics and bad tempered point scoring. Personally, if I was an admin, I would just lock a thread where this started to happen to stop OOF as a public forum being brought into disrepute and warn the parties on their conduct. TBH just repeating the same things in an argument makes the thread VERY BORING anyway. If they start another thread and start again, then lock that and ban them both for a week. It takes two or more to argue and therefore I think that all parties in the argument should be banned as this keeps it simple for admins and they are not seen or perceived as taking sides.

An OOF rule ought to be you can discuss what you want as long as it is legal, but if you argue, are bad tempered or are rude to another or other members then you will get a warning and then a ban and the admin decisions are final. Brutal, but IMHO necessary for the good of the forum. I also think this should be done publically on the thread in question, so moderator decisions, for transparency, are in the open. It is then the personal responsibility for all members to behave correctly. If you don't want to do the time, don't commit the crime, simples.

Lets stop this blood letting as it is killing OOF and get back to it being a friendly place for car and non-car discussions. At the moment things are as bad or worse than they were with the DLK / Ljay saga.

My suggestion would be to lock this thread as I see it as part of the problem, lets put what has happened behind us and have a new start for all contributors so we can get back to enjoying this place again. I think there has been enough blood letting including on this thread and it is time for all parties to stop, before we all walk away and OOF is dead, which as Omega owners would be to the detriment and a loss for all of us as soon as we have car problems.

[paul.lovejoy]

I personaly couldn't give a toss either way

i wish you would get straight to the point

[Marks DTM Calib]

I personaly couldn't give a toss either way

i wish you would get straight to the point

Well I dont

If I want to say something I do, if not I dont.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Personally, I think politics is being made a scapegoat for all that is wrong with OOF.

I'm a political animal and like to express my opinion and do so by creating and commenting on political threads. After Nickbat and Albs, I'm probably third for the number of these threads that have been created in recent times on politics and economics. How many arguments have I had? NONE.

Why? For two reasons, arguments never achieve anything all they do in intrench each respective position, they bring as a public forum OOF into disrepute and it remains a discussion if you don't get personal and each time you comment you add something constructive to support what you are saying then it generally stays at the discussion level.

I don't expect everybody to agree with me, in fact the treads would be boring if they did, I quite happy to remain friends and agree to disagree at times. Once or twice people have been a nasty, but it is only very occasionally and I personally prefer to walk away than to wash dirty linen in public.

Very often when somebody has a pop it is due to other reasons, they have other non-OOF underlying problems and OOF has been used to as an outlet for this. Unfortunate, but we all after a bad day tend to shout at the wife and dog or dog and wife. It is human nature to take things out on those things closest to us. So maybe part of the problem is that some people are spending too much time on OOF.

Now I think it is fair to say that me and cem are never going to agree politically, but we had a big long thread on state control of production v capitalism. Both of us were making long comments on our respective positions, we never argued and respected each others opinions. Several people commented that they had enjoyed reading the long dialogs. Once we had reached the end of our points of view, me and cem agreed to disagree and left the thread as friends. This is how it should be. I've also had many long discussions with Lizzie and she is not only very factual but IMHO is very fair and eloquent in the way she writes and presents things and personally I think she is a credit to OOF and the place if better for her return.

The problems with OOF is not public politics but personal politics and bad tempered point scoring. Personally, if I was an admin, I would just lock a thread where this started to happen to stop OOF as a public forum being brought into disrepute and warn the parties on their conduct. TBH just repeating the same things in an argument makes the thread VERY BORING anyway. If they start another thread and start again, then lock that and ban them both for a week. It takes two or more to argue and therefore I think that all parties in the argument should be banned as this keeps it simple for admins and they are not seen or perceived as taking sides.

An OOF rule ought to be you can discuss what you want as long as it is legal, but if you argue, are bad tempered or are rude to another or other members then you will get a warning and then a ban and the admin decisions are final. Brutal, but IMHO necessary for the good of the forum. I also think this should be done publically on the thread in question, so moderator decisions, for transparency, are in the open. It is then the personal responsibility for all members to behave correctly. If you don't want to do the time, don't commit the crime, simples.

Lets stop this blood letting as it is killing OOF and get back to it being a friendly place for car and non-car discussions. At the moment things are as bad or worse than they were with the DLK / Ljay saga.

My suggestion would be to lock this thread as I see it as part of the problem, lets put what has happened behind us and have a new start for all contributors so we can get back to enjoying this place again. I think there has been enough blood letting including on this thread and it is time for all parties to stop, before we all walk away and OOF is dead, which as Omega owners would be to the detriment and a loss for all of us as soon as we have car problems.

As usual Rods2, I fully agree with your post, not just for the kind comment about me, but for all the other points you make.  I feel now I need say no more