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[Andy B]

So is my Touareg,I wouldn't want that with the fourth pedal

Hang on..

Accelerator, brake, clutch … fourth pedal?

 

My auto Merc has three pedals ....... throttle, brake & emergency/parking brake 

[aaronjb]

That's all I could think of Andy, but I thought that was unique to Mercedes (thankfully) and not VAG cars like the Tuareg..


As for automated manuals - ditto for the SMG and, really, SMG-II in the BMW, Andy.. Although the DSG (or whatever it is BMW call it, I forget) in the E9x and onward is infinitely better.

I went down to Porsche a month or so ago (I know, I know, rich, etc etc) and asked if they could find a 997.2 911 C2 or C2S Cabriolet (so 2009-2012 model) with a manual gearbox for me to try.. they're still trying to find one. Apparently almost everyone went for the PDK gearbox once Porsche did away with the tiptronic (which was really just a slush box)..

[cem_devecioglu]

.....
Personally I'm amazed the manual gearbox still exists in this century in all but the most driver-focused cars like Caterhams etc.. I'd imagine it's purely down to extra costs of manufacture and fractional lower mpg.......

On the later bmw diesels the mpg of the auto is better around town than the manual and marginally quicker 0-60mph. 
Not much in it combined. 

 


so goes faster with less fuel... yep..when the fish climbs the tree

[cem_devecioglu]

So is my Touareg,I wouldn't want that with the fourth pedal

Hang on..

Accelerator, brake, clutch … fourth pedal?

 

My auto Merc has three pedals ....... throttle, brake & emergency/parking brake 

parking brake is in the most left (left hand drive) near the pillar and not near the usual pedal set.. so not counted

[cem_devecioglu]

That's all I could think of Andy, but I thought that was unique to Mercedes (thankfully) and not VAG cars like the Tuareg..


As for automated manuals - ditto for the SMG and, really, SMG-II in the BMW, Andy.. Although the DSG (or whatever it is BMW call it, I forget) in the E9x and onward is infinitely better.

I went down to Porsche a month or so ago (I know, I know, rich, etc etc) and asked if they could find a 997.2 911 C2 or C2S Cabriolet (so 2009-2012 model) with a manual gearbox for me to try.. they're still trying to find one. Apparently almost everyone went for the PDK gearbox once Porsche did away with the tiptronic (which was really just a slush box)..

both smg and dsg's are automated manuals and not relevant with the usual slush boxes that the omega have..

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

So is my Touareg,I wouldn't want that with the fourth pedal

Hang on..

Accelerator, brake, clutch … fourth pedal?

 

My auto Merc has three pedals ....... throttle, brake & emergency/parking brake 

Ah yes, Mr Beanz.

I wondered what the f**k it was when I first saw this 'strange device'

In practice......and after some practice, it works pretty well after a fashion.

[cem_devecioglu]

So is my Touareg,I wouldn't want that with the fourth pedal

Hang on..

Accelerator, brake, clutch … fourth pedal?

 

My auto Merc has three pedals ....... throttle, brake & emergency/parking brake 

Ah yes, Mr Beanz.

I wondered what the f**k it was when I first saw this 'strange device'

In practice......and after some practice, it works pretty well after a fashion.

it may work but all proper cars have a hand brake

[Andy B]

.....

Ah yes, Mr Beanz.

I wondered what the f**k it was when I first saw this 'strange device'

In practice......and after some practice, it works pretty well after a fashion.

I rarely use it.

I'd come across them years ago when one of the funeral places my Dad worked at had a US 'station wagon' as a hearse and then used one in the early 80s when I hired a car in Florida. The other lads that hired a car stumbled at the first hurdle trying to get their car to move because they'd never come across one. 

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

That's all I could think of Andy, but I thought that was unique to Mercedes (thankfully) and not VAG cars like the Tuareg..


As for automated manuals - ditto for the SMG and, really, SMG-II in the BMW, Andy.. Although the DSG (or whatever it is BMW call it, I forget) in the E9x and onward is infinitely better.

I went down to Porsche a month or so ago (I know, I know, rich, etc etc) and asked if they could find a 997.2 911 C2 or C2S Cabriolet (so 2009-2012 model) with a manual gearbox for me to try.. they're still trying to find one. Apparently almost everyone went for the PDK gearbox once Porsche did away with the tiptronic (which was really just a slush box)..

Just a few short years ago this 'device of the devil' would have been considered heresy.

How times change.

[Andy B]

.....
it may work but all proper cars have a hand brake

they do ............ P for park 

[YZ250]

.....
Personally I'm amazed the manual gearbox still exists in this century in all but the most driver-focused cars like Caterhams etc.. I'd imagine it's purely down to extra costs of manufacture and fractional lower mpg.......

On the later bmw diesels the mpg of the auto is better around town than the manual and marginally quicker 0-60mph. 
Not much in it combined. 

 


so goes faster with less fuel... yep..when the fish climbs the tree

The fish must be climbing the trees then Cem. 
I speak from my daily personal experience, so I'd like to think that I'm in a position to comment on this. 
Times have changed, technology has moved on, and you have flappy paddles to play with if you get bored. 

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

So is my Touareg,I wouldn't want that with the fourth pedal

Hang on..

Accelerator, brake, clutch … fourth pedal?

 

My auto Merc has three pedals ....... throttle, brake & emergency/parking brake 

Ah yes, Mr Beanz.

I wondered what the f**k it was when I first saw this 'strange device'

In practice......and after some practice, it works pretty well after a fashion.

it may work but all proper cars have a hand brake

I have to agree, Cem.

After trying both I much prefer a conventional handbrake.

It's like the difference between a gas cooker and an electric cooker. One allows far more control than the other.

[Entwood]

.....
Personally I'm amazed the manual gearbox still exists in this century in all but the most driver-focused cars like Caterhams etc.. I'd imagine it's purely down to extra costs of manufacture and fractional lower mpg.......

On the later bmw diesels the mpg of the auto is better around town than the manual and marginally quicker 0-60mph. 
Not much in it combined. 

 


so goes faster with less fuel... yep..when the fish climbs the tree

As engine efficiency increases there is no reason for this not to occur ... at one extreme compare the power/efficiency of a cast iron engine lump of 40 years ago to a present day engine, at the other compare the power efficiency of last years F1 cars to this years beasts.

Technology moves on, but some luddites don't ......      

[Diamond Black Geezer]

Oooh, well I wrote a reply, but 14(!) replies had been written in the time it took me to write mine. It appears much of what I was going to say has already been said... it went like

All fair enough - what I'm really saying is there are plenty of elements of car design which generations saw disappear, which each previous generation saw/lamented its passing, just thinking off the top of my head...

Hand-cranking (stupid electric motor adding weight, etc.. just maintain your car properly and it's go after the first crank or two)
Manual choke (the lost 'art' of where to have it and when, why do we need these swanky 'automatic' chokes)
Chassis, over monocoque construction (end of bespoke coachbuilding)
Proper Chrome bumpers (designed to protect the car, not deform at the slightest knock, and cost hundreds to replace/repair, as opposed to 15 mins with Autosol)
Power steering (more weight - exactly why do you need PAS on a Corsa? Skinny tyres + large steering wheel = worked for donkeys years)

and most recently...

Petrol (in 2010 Diesel overtook Petrol sales for the first time. Oh woe! Diesel isn't a 'proper' fuel etc.. Diseasel etc..  )


I'm not saying this is a list that can't be counter-argued, I'm sure it will, just that

Personally I'm amazed the manual gearbox still exists in this century in all but the most driver-focused cars like Caterhams etc.. I'd imagine it's purely down to extra costs of manufacture and fractional lower mpg.. 

why ?   drivers who are capable of shifting still prefer manual..  2-3 litre 95 ron fuel difference per 100 km makes a lot of cost for the life time of car..

Yes, totally, however, as I said, cars weighing many hundreds of kilos more now that they did 20 yrs ago also ads to fuel consumption, but this hasn't deterred manufacturers/buyers. Just imagine what the mpg - and speed - would be on a Mk 1 Astra, with a modern 1.4 engine, with all the emissions PC junk taken off. Just imagine what carrying 400 kgs of weight around with you all the time would do to your mpg.

.....
Personally I'm amazed the manual gearbox still exists in this century in all but the most driver-focused cars like Caterhams etc.. I'd imagine it's purely down to extra costs of manufacture and fractional lower mpg.......

On the later bmw diesels the mpg of the auto is better around town than the manual and marginally quicker 0-60mph. 
Not much in it combined. 

Again - there we go, autos are not 'automatically' (no pun intended) less fuel efficient. Not having a pop at all you manual drivers, of course, it's just for me, a car that does the gearchanging for you is as convenient as a car that tells me when the brake pads are worn badly, or adjusts the rear drums itself, and has electrically powered windows, heated seats etc... 



I'd add that, as mentioned by previous poster, the eleccy handbrake is another feature that some say is better, others lament the passing of a 'proper' handbrake. Eee technology, in't it marvellous!

[aaronjb]

I'd hazard a guess that part of the reason the BMW auto is more efficient (and quicker) is that it's (if memory serves) an 8 speed automatic vs a 6 speed manual..

That lets you tune the engine with a fairly narrow power band (it's easy to make an engine very efficient but only in a narrow range of operating parameters, otherwise you have to compromise and make it reasonable efficient over a wider range of parameters) and use the gearbox to make sure you're always within that power band.  Not to mention that with 8 speeds you can lock the torque convertor up a lot more of the time, making it behave much more like a regular manual gearbox.

.. and anyone would get bored shuffling 8 cogs manually so that rules out 8 speed manuals