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[johnny_boy]

Do people not think the fact that none of this is clear exposes the central flaw of brexit - that it simply hasn't been thought out.
Its like a shopping list of wishful thinking.

That is exactly what has persuaded me to settle on a reluctant and guarded Remain vote. All the Leave campaigners have published is a vague suggestion that it will be OK, with no idea of how that will be the case. Their continual implication that our immigration and economic problems will instantly improve is especially insulting.

This country faces some very tough times ahead, this referendum could have been an opportunity to address globalisation, social equality etc etc
Instead i have nigel farage talking about foreign rapists coming to our shores.
Its been depressing and dismaying.

[Entwood]

I believe that Nissan and Honda have said they wouldn't move their factories. Of course with more generous grants from the Eu to move yet more factories out of the Uk to other parts of Europe who knows.

The Nissan statement is here :
http://www.newsroom.nissan-europe.com/uk/en-gb/Media/Media.aspx?mediaid=142871

Now you can spin things any way you want, but I struggle to see how that says anything close to "they wouldn't move their factories"

Totally agree ...

""While we remain committed to our existing investment decisions, we will not speculate on the outcome nor what would happen in either scenario."
 
He added: "We obviously want the Nissan UK plant and engineering centre to remain as competitive as possible when compared with other global entities, and each future investment opportunity will be taken on a case by case basis, just as it is now.""

Certainly does not translate as "we are staying put" ..... and I don't speak owt but English .....

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Nissan recently announced that the have chosen the UK for production of its first partially driverless car. I doubt they would have made that decision if they considered Brexit a reason to move out of the UK. I'm pretty certain their chairman said earlier this year that they would stay in the UK even if we leave the EU. I cant find it at the moment, but if I do I will post it up.
The Chairman of Toyota has stated that they will remain in the UK if we leave the EU.
The owner of JCB has advised his staff that he considers the future of the UK to be best served by leaving the EU.
Robert Hargreaves, founder of Hargreaves Lansdown says we will do better if we leave.
There are similar people on both sides of the debate, but those on the remain side tend to be large global conglomerates who like the fact that one set of rules for dozens of countries saves them a lot of admin time & cost.
The rules are very restrictive, but they enjoy being part of the lobbying industry in Brussells, so they can influence laws, rules, directives etc. in their own favour.
Its a big boys club. A club for a powerful elite to enable them to rule over us with almost no accountability, the dream scenario for most politicians.
It isn't much good for ordinary people, and it treats the notion of separate, sovereign , democratic nations with complete disdain
The future outside of it cannot be predicted with absolute certainty. Nothing in the future can, including the future if we stay in.
To assume to vote to stay in will be a vote for the status quo would be staggeringly naïve in my opinion. Look at the history of the EU and then decide what its future course is likely to be.
Look at the history of the UK and decide if its likely to do ok if it returns to democratic self governance, and returns to being a nation which trades with the whole world on mutually beneficial terms.
Have confidence in your own country. The only reason not to is fear. To me, the fear of remaining is much greater than the fear of leaving.

[Varche]

Problem is marriage involves two people. But sometimes people stick together for the kids.
In this case itis millions of people and generations to come.
Bit of an oversimplification i think to compare it to marriage.
I respect every ones opinions obviously there is a lot of strong feelings around europe.
I just wish they had thought all of this through before presenting it to the electorate.

Spot on and with your later comments about globalisation andf so on.

I wish the Eu had adapted to the obvious wishes of many people. They didn't and in my view have little intention of doing so. At the moment we have Blue on Blue power struggle, we have a weak UK PM who in order to ensure geting back into power "gave" the UK a referendum. We have global interests baying that a Brexit would be bad (for them). We have a Eurozone still teetering on the edge. The timing of the referendum is atrocious however it is the only chance most of us on this forum will have to vote on the subject. I don't want my grandchildren to be ruled by the federal EU with its own army making grand decisions but not thinking them through (handling of migrants to Europe, Eurozone crisis and so on). The trading bloc idea was sound. 

[Mister Rog]

Problem is marriage involves two people. But sometimes people stick together for the kids.
In this case itis millions of people and generations to come.
Bit of an oversimplification i think to compare it to marriage.
I respect every ones opinions obviously there is a lot of strong feelings around europe.
I just wish they had thought all of this through before presenting it to the electorate.

I'm pretty sure that David Cameron bitterly regrets presenting it to the electorate. It may well cost him his job.

.

[johnny_boy]

Back to nissan... Surely one of the reasons they went to sunderland was eu financial help for deprived areas? Same as airbus wings being built in wales?
Sone of these arguments seem to be highly selective with the facts.

[Varche]

It may cost him his job but he will soon get a proper job with a decent rate of pay. He always said this was his last term. Secretly I dare say he will be glad to go.

[johnny_boy]

Nissan uk boss on eu. In his own words...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-24859486

[LC0112G]

Nissan recently announced that the have chosen the UK for production of its first partially driverless car. I doubt they would have made that decision if they considered Brexit a reason to move out of the UK. I'm pretty certain their chairman said earlier this year that they would stay in the UK even if we leave the EU. I cant find it at the moment, but if I do I will post it up.

You won't find it coz he didn't say it.

The Chairman of Toyota has stated that they will remain in the UK if we leave the EU.

The actual Toyota statement :
http://blog.toyota.co.uk/statement-from-toyota-in-regards-to-the-uk-eu-referendum-june-23rd-2016

Again - I can't see anywhere that it says  "they won't be leaving"

Robert Hargreaves, founder of Hargreaves Lansdown says we will do better if we leave.

Hargreaves Lansdown are a slick operation, but so overpriced anyone with them should have left several years ago whilst you could still leave for free. Now you're going to have to pay to leave. A good business model to extract money from the unsuspecting public, but not one I'd be taking advice from. And he funds Bristol City FC.

[LC0112G]

I'm pretty sure that David Cameron bitterly regrets presenting it to the electorate. It may well cost him his job.

.

Not sure about that. If he'd have lost the last election he'd probably be have been ousted shortly afterwards. As it is, he's already said he'll stand down as leader before the next election (though continue as an MP?)

I think he thought that the most likely way to remain in power after the 2015 election was as a result of a hung parliament in a coalition. If that included the Lib-Dems then they wouldn't agree to a referendum, so he could weasel out of one the same way he did after the 2010 election. And if they lost the 2015 election, then it didn't matter promising a referendum since Labour weren't offering one.

What he never though was that the Tories would outright win the election, thus he had to allow a referendum in order to keep the party together. Basically the lesser of 3 evils. If he comes away with a Remain vote, then he'll have got away with it. If it's a Leave vote, then he can continue till the next election as PM before standing down and handing over to the new guy to sort the mess out.

[Kevin Wood]

If you need some clarity then try likening the situation to a marriage. You want change. None is forthcoming despite your partner saying things will change. You decide enough is enough and go for a divorce. Does life stop after divorce? Do you have a clear road path (e.g. a better partner to try)? No you do not. However it doesn't stop people successfully going through a divorce. I get fed up of all this but how will it work, what are we going to do. One thing we wouldn't do is sit back in pessimist mode and be spoonfed bumf by the EU.

About the best analogy I've seen. There may be a detailed roadmap drawn up between the government, the EU and other players as to how a Brexit would happen. There may not be. We the plebs don't have it in front of us because the only parties who could draw it up have a vested interest in the status quo remaining. Their cards are therefore being held close to their chest while they spin the doom and gloom BS. 

Only if the public directs our government to leave the EU will they play their hand.

[Sir Tigger KC]

Nissan uk boss on eu. In his own words...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-24859486

"This is not the first time that Mr Ghosn has linked Nissan's UK investment to the country's role within the EU.
In October 2002, he told the BBC News website that the Sunderland plant's future would depend on whether the UK adopted the euro.
However, the UK has continued to use the pound and Nissan is still making cars in Sunderland."

Copied from the BBC article you linked.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Back to nissan... Surely one of the reasons they went to sunderland was eu financial help for deprived areas? Same as airbus wings being built in wales?
Sone of these arguments seem to be highly selective with the facts.

The EU doesn't have any money, other than that which it takes in taxes from member states. Therefore, the "EU aid" for Nissan Sunderland, is simply them returning some of the money which this country sent to the EU, but the EU is deciding how it sends it back.
Our post Brexit Govt can of course choose to aid Nissan in exactly the same way. It would just be more direct.

Toyota Chairman.
https://next.ft.com/content/1afaf414-b81f-11e5-b151-8e15c9a029fb

Edit. Above link wont work, but if you google, Toyota chairman says Toyota wont leave UK if we brexit, the FT article will appear.

[Sir Tigger KC]

Back to nissan... Surely one of the reasons they went to sunderland was eu financial help for deprived areas? Same as airbus wings being built in wales?
Sone of these arguments seem to be highly selective with the facts.

The EU doesn't have any money, other than that which it takes in taxes from member states. Therefore, the "EU aid" for Nissan Sunderland, is simply them returning some of the money which this country sent to the EU, but the EU is deciding how it sends it back.
Our post Brexit Govt can of course choose to aid Nissan in exactly the same way. It would just be more direct.

More importantly they will be able to as they will not be constrained by EU law.   

Whether they chose to do so is another matter however! 

[gbh]

I'm not old enough to remember but i'm sure when we voted in nobody mentioned its going to cost most of the people in the fishing industry their jobs and rather a lot of jobs at that???