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[Webby the Bear]

Evening guys

So I'm looking to educate myself a tad. Now knowing there are members on here that find Nicola Sturgeon attractive this is probably not the best place for sensible answers 

Anyway we've got a new chap started at work and he clearly loves his rovers. To the point where if I hear the term 'k series' much more I'm going to lose it lol

Any ways is there anybody that knows what exactly went wrong? Why was a British company allowed to go to the dogs? Having never owned a rover were they properly shite cars.

Educate me fellow oofers 

[Crazycarzowner]

Where do you ya start & how long have you got???

This thread could go on longer than your 0-60 thread! 

 

[Andy B]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9ztUlve9jc

if you have half an hour ....... 

[Sir Tigger KC]

EU state aid rules.  Probably one of few instances where they did us a favour. 

[Webby the Bear]

Cheers lads.

Andy thanks for that. I'd looked for a documentary but couldn't find one. Is the clarkson one mainly correct?

[Nick W]

It's a long boring story of badly handled mergers, mismanagement, union problems, shoddy quality control, the utterly insane approach of allowing the previous companies 'develop' competing model ranges on non-existent budgets and selling them from the same dealers, ambitious engineering not backed up by development, government interference, complacent marketing etc etc. British industry since WW2 in a nutshell.


These companies started off as mass-market producers like Austin or Morris, quality marques like Rover(modern equivalent is probably Audi), profitable niche manufacturers like Jaguar and the 'sportier' brands like MG and Triumph. All pissed away.


Hope that answers your question.

[LC0112G]

The golden era for Rover was probably the 1960's with the Rover P5. At that time they were a luxury brand competing with Jaguar and even the lower end of the Rolls Royce range. The Queen had a P5.

Then in the late 60's came the P6, which was a more mass market car aimed at executives etc. Very popular, but coincided with the worst years of British industrial relations, so quality headed downhill fast.

Late 70's the Rover SDi.  Nuff said

The fact your mate is going on about K series engines shows what little he knows - IIRC it was a Joint venture with Honda in the 1980s, and used in the Rover 200/400 - real grandma mobile chicaines. Hideous cars all of em. Not many left thank god coz they rusted worse than Vauxhalls.

[STEMO]

The best rover engine was the Honda engine, our 623Sli was brilliant, loads of low down torque. I let that car, in a lovely pewter colour, go for £150. I was sorry as soon as it drove off.

[TheBoy]

As said, poor management, and too powerful unions, particularly in the 70s. Towards the mid/late 80s, they were actually producing some decent cars, mostly due to a semi partnership with Honda. It wasn't just technical, some of the Japanese work culture flowed over, and Maggie had already killed the Unions.

Come the mid 90s, disaster struck, as BMW bought them for the technology and processes, rather than to keep it as a going concern, and although it lasted another 10yrs, it did so with no investment.


I've had a bunch of BL/Rover cars, not a bad one among them:

'82 Triumph Acclaim HLS, aka YEGGY - my first car, immaculate condition, went like a rocket (for a 1.3), had the clocks reading over 120mph on my private road once.  OK, too small for a family, and suspension a tad soft, but a great little motor. Killed when a Volvo took me up the arse, hard.

'84 Metro VP, aka The Thrashmobile - Mrs TB's car when I met her. Comfortable, and with the MG engine, adequate performance. Really comfortable with its VP interior.  Sadly, a frequent target for the Aylesbury kids to break into. Scapped when it needed too much suspension work.

'90 216Gsi, aka TAVVY - bought cheap at 40k miles with a suspect clutch (part ex'd my Astra GTE that I HAD to get rid of quick), that thing embarrassed a lot of cars, both in acceleration, braking and cornering.  3rd gear was particularly versatile, pulling from 15mph through to about 120mph.  Gave it to one of my bro's at 80k, as he was going through a hard time, he ran it to 140k without doing *anything* except tyres. That includes oil. Still went like the clappers, though acceleration needed patience, as the clutch had gotten worse

A pair of 420SLDi's, one a 96 one a 98, on her works lease scheme. Both fine cars.  Not the quickest, being diesels, but satisfying to blow soot on some supposedly quicker petrols back in those days, and a million times better than the diesels Vauxhall and Ford were pushing. Good mile crunchers, and economical even when hoofing.  The 98 one consistently gave 45+mpg, even when thrashed.

My little 25 1.6 iS, so spectacularly killed by the bitch with the Passat. And the Audi A5.  Best handling FWD car I've ever driven, as long as it was on Pirelli P6000s. I've never known such a shit tyre to work so well. Being only 110bhp, it was showing its age later in life when it came to trying to out accelerate newer cars, but still great fun. Stunning condition, right until it lost that argument about 4yrs back. K series, so obviously it had a HG go at 72k.


So in summary, some Rovers were decent. Some just needed avoiding - Montegos, Meastros, Itals, Marinas, Allagros etc etc.

[Webby the Bear]

So in your opinions was the trade unions striking every two seconds not the main catalyst?

[Nick W]

So in your opinions was the trade unions striking every two seconds not the main catalyst?

That was certainly an important factor, but the terrible management trying to run Austin, Morris, Triumph, MG then Rover and Jaguar as competitors within the same markets but with model ranges and factories deliberately designed to be incompatible(Maxi/Dolomite/Toledo/Marina/Allegro or the big Triumph/Rover/Jaguar for two examples) had to play a big part.

[TheBoy]

So in your opinions was the trade unions striking every two seconds not the main catalyst?

That and the lack of pride in the 70s. That's not just in the workers, but at all levels above, from the foreman upwards.

As said, by late 80s, they'd turned it round quite a lot (unions were dead, and the company had realised they were in a competitive, global market), and it was making profit, and had a viable future.

[omegod]

I'm running a rusty 95 220 si and it's a lovely drive  Wife hates it though

You should find plenty of stuff on this roverlickers site http://www.aronline.co.uk/blogs/

[YZ250]

........
So in summary, some Rovers were decent. Some just needed avoiding - Montegos, Meastros, Itals, Marinas, Allagros etc etc.

I'll have you know that I had over five years trouble free motoring in my MG Turbo.    Sold it to my brother-in-law who had another five years out of it. The only thing that let go was the front tyres when I hoofed it. 

......
Having never owned a rover were they properly shite cars.

For the money they were ok, not groundbreaking but ok.    Remember, it was the same men building the Roller. 

[Crazycarzowner]

........
So in summary, some Rovers were decent. Some just needed avoiding - Montegos, Meastros, Itals, Marinas, Allagros etc etc.

I'll have you know that I had over five years trouble free motoring in my MG Turbo.    Sold it to my brother-in-law who had another five years out of it. The only thing that let go was the front tyres when I hoofed it. 

......
Having never owned a rover were they properly shite cars.

For the money they were ok, not groundbreaking but ok.    Remember, it was the same men building the Roller. 

My mate bought a MG Montego turbo for £200, more rust than car but bloody hell it could shift in a straight line if you could stop the front wheels from spinning