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Author Topic: The Opel Omega B1 (aka Vauxhall Omega PFL) Design  (Read 12339 times)

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anV6

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Re: The Opel Omega B1 (aka Vauxhall Omega PFL) Design
« Reply #15 on: 10 November 2016, 15:39:02 »

I'm starting to think a serious conversation about the design will not be possible?
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Zirfeld

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Re: The Opel Omega B1 (aka Vauxhall Omega PFL) Design
« Reply #16 on: 10 November 2016, 16:19:50 »

Hi anV6

I just like to show, where the roots of Omega design depend on.

Last summer I had the pleasure  to park my Omega beneath a Ro. I was very surprised how many design elements both cars have in common.

Rolf
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Nick W

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Re: The Opel Omega B1 (aka Vauxhall Omega PFL) Design
« Reply #17 on: 10 November 2016, 17:45:55 »

I'm starting to think a serious conversation about the design will not be possible?


I wonder if you and I are looking at the same car?


The PFL Omega looks exactly what it is: Vauxhall's late 80s/early 90s styling cues applied to the Carlton bodyshell and interior. Look at the wing to bonnet/headlamp/bumper and door mirror to screen fits, door handles, bumpers all match both the mk3 Cavalier and the equivalent Astra. The exterior works well as a whole because it is based on a car that was utterly modern when introduced and was well proportioned, although the wheel sizes and styles do place it in time. The interior hasn't aged as well; the heater dials, door cards and upholstery look very dated.


The FL did the same thing but although the smoother bumpers and larger wheels work well, the grille still looks poorly integrated. The interior only lacks a large screen to look thoroughly up to date.


Steinmetz stuff just looks tacky and obviously aftermarket to me.
Irmscher is better integrated, but doesn't add anything worthwhile.


The PFL compares well to both E34 and E39 BMWs, although the E39 is the contemporary car.


Ford's Granada/Ultima change was a bizarre direction to take, and never sold as well as the car it was based on/replaced for a number of good reasons.


Large French cars hve never sold well in the UK, and the few  Peugeot 604/Citroen XM/Renault Safrane(?) sold quickly disappeared.


Jaguars of the period were still stuck in their can't be bothered to style the new car phase, and aren't really a competitor.
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BazaJT

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Re: The Opel Omega B1 (aka Vauxhall Omega PFL) Design
« Reply #18 on: 10 November 2016, 18:51:37 »

To be pedantic if you're using 1993 as your base date you'd need a picture of the XJ40,the X300[pictured didn't appear until late 1994.Anyway the Jaguar had style.The Omega B1 is for me very effeminately styled and lacks any kind of road presence,the B2 partly made up for this with its bigger bumpers,mirrors and wheels,although I think the grille could have been better integrated-but that was the corporate "face".Would I have another B1?No I wouldn't,but then nor would I have another B2!Would I have another X300 yes definitely!!
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Zirfeld

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Re: The Opel Omega B1 (aka Vauxhall Omega PFL) Design
« Reply #19 on: 10 November 2016, 19:17:26 »

Hi Nick

The Omega B PFL is not a new designed Omega A. Even some parts of the front chassis depends on late 60 constructions (!) the chassis was completely improved to get much better results by crash tests. Central point was to distribute energy from the crash zone into the complete chassis. So more energy could been decreased. Also the structure was improved by using stronger materials.

So the Omega B PFL was not a new construction, but a new and optimized setup.

I like the PFL styling. It comes smoth and curved....the FL turns an edge design over it. I do not like it.

Also the PFL reminds me of my alltime ultimate favourite Opel



It was an Senator B 3.0i 24V. I drove him many years over a quarter million kilometers.

Rolf
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VXL V6

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Re: The Opel Omega B1 (aka Vauxhall Omega PFL) Design
« Reply #20 on: 10 November 2016, 21:18:38 »

Personally I prefer the Facelift version of the Omega to the PFL / MFL, I just think the car feels a more modern car.

One styling design that I've always liked on cars is a front airdam - even if it's only really cosmetic on a road car!





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anV6

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Re: The Opel Omega B1 (aka Vauxhall Omega PFL) Design
« Reply #21 on: 10 November 2016, 22:07:27 »

I was hoping the thread would not become a PFL vs FL thread. >:(

I started the thread to discuss the PFL design. Not to make a "my car is better than your car" thread.

Oh well...
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Bojan

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Re: The Opel Omega B1 (aka Vauxhall Omega PFL) Design
« Reply #22 on: 10 November 2016, 22:10:14 »

You're not alone in thinking that PFL has 'something' in it's design.
Even today, it looks, well, quite well. It definitely aged better than most of the cars of it's time.
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anV6

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Re: The Opel Omega B1 (aka Vauxhall Omega PFL) Design
« Reply #23 on: 10 November 2016, 22:19:42 »

Hi anV6

I just like to show, where the roots of Omega design depend on.

Last summer I had the pleasure  to park my Omega beneath a Ro. I was very surprised how many design elements both cars have in common.

Rolf

Oh, OK. I guess I missed your point.

But I wouldn't agree the RO 80 is any root for the Omega B1 design. The proportions, the profile, I mean, the whole car is quite different. The only thing remotely similar is the way the C pillar joins the boot line. But I would not stretch it to the point of saying the RO 80 is the root for the Omega's design.  :)

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VXL V6

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Re: The Opel Omega B1 (aka Vauxhall Omega PFL) Design
« Reply #24 on: 10 November 2016, 22:30:29 »

I was hoping the thread would not become a PFL vs FL thread. >:(

I started the thread to discuss the PFL design. Not to make a "my car is better than your car" thread.

Oh well...

Oh well...
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anV6

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Re: The Opel Omega B1 (aka Vauxhall Omega PFL) Design
« Reply #25 on: 10 November 2016, 23:18:56 »

I'm starting to think a serious conversation about the design will not be possible?


I wonder if you and I are looking at the same car?


The PFL Omega looks exactly what it is: Vauxhall's late 80s/early 90s styling cues applied to the Carlton bodyshell and interior. Look at the wing to bonnet/headlamp/bumper and door mirror to screen fits, door handles, bumpers all match both the mk3 Cavalier and the equivalent Astra. The exterior works well as a whole because it is based on a car that was utterly modern when introduced and was well proportioned, although the wheel sizes and styles do place it in time. The interior hasn't aged as well; the heater dials, door cards and upholstery look very dated.


The FL did the same thing but although the smoother bumpers and larger wheels work well, the grille still looks poorly integrated. The interior only lacks a large screen to look thoroughly up to date.


Steinmetz stuff just looks tacky and obviously aftermarket to me.
Irmscher is better integrated, but doesn't add anything worthwhile.


The PFL compares well to both E34 and E39 BMWs, although the E39 is the contemporary car.


Ford's Granada/Ultima change was a bizarre direction to take, and never sold as well as the car it was based on/replaced for a number of good reasons.


Large French cars hve never sold well in the UK, and the few  Peugeot 604/Citroen XM/Renault Safrane(?) sold quickly disappeared.


Jaguars of the period were still stuck in their can't be bothered to style the new car phase, and aren't really a competitor.

I find it quite impossible for us to be looking at different cars, since I backed all my points with pictures.  ;)

Yes, we are most definitely looking at the same car.

And I'm not seeing how the Omega B1 is typical late 80's/early 90's Opel. Yes, since we have started being pedantic, this is what the cars are. Opel.  :P

They are designed and mostly built in Germany. Vauxhall is basically badge engineering. A Vauxhall Omega is no more of a Vauxhall than a Cadillac Catera is a real Cadillac.  ;) :P

But back on topic, would you mind posting the pictures of the Opels which were current when the Omega B came out which looked a lot like it? Because the Omega B1 doesn't look like the Vectra A if that's what you are saying. Yes, they will obviously share parts from the bin. Like I said the Omega B1 is not un-Opel. But that is very different from looking like one another.

But I find it interesting that you mention design lines integration and brings up the Omega FL. I will just leave it at that as I really don't want to bring the FL car too much into the thread. This is about the PFL original design.

We will have to disagree about the interior too. I think it aged very well. It will not look current and neither does the FL's with or without a large screen. But I think this is missing the point. If I want or need an interior which looks current I will just buy a new car. But the PFL interior still looks good today. I agree about the heater dials though. But it's the only weak part of the interior IMO:



But later cars came with automatic climate control and that looks fine IMO:




The thing is, I used to like the FL interior better as well, till I saw the PFL full leather black interior:



I think the above interior looks better and more sporty. The plain cloth interior's door cards are not much to my liking. But the above looks great. Specially if instead of wood, which I always find tacky or too conservative, you have just plain gloss black:



The black looks very contemporary IMO. But if you prefer aluminum:




As for wheels, well, today if you want it to look more up to date you can put any wheels or tires you want. So not a big deal.

As for Steinmetz looking aftermarket, this is the point of tuning. People pay for a Brabus because it looks different from the stock version. People will pay a lot for exclusivity. Not many of them are interested in paying a premium just to have a car which looks very similar to the stock one. The Steinmetz has a much more aggressive look than the Irmscher and a much stronger presence. The PFL Irmscher barely looks any different from the stock car. The FL Irmscher is a little better. But it looks too soft IMO, which is ironic since somebody suggested the PFL car looks effeminate.   :)

On top of all that, the Irmscher Omegas are just a look package, which IMO is pointless. Again if we are to be pedantic , the Irmscher Omega is a "Ricer" Omega, as this is what the term means. Visual modifications without performance enhancements. Body kit and no engine to back it up. I myself dislike the term. But this is how they call it. So for me it's the Steinmetz. But looks is naturally very subjective.  ;)
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anV6

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Re: The Opel Omega B1 (aka Vauxhall Omega PFL) Design
« Reply #26 on: 10 November 2016, 23:29:30 »

To be pedantic if you're using 1993 as your base date you'd need a picture of the XJ40,the X300[pictured didn't appear until late 1994.Anyway the Jaguar had style.The Omega B1 is for me very effeminately styled and lacks any kind of road presence,the B2 partly made up for this with its bigger bumpers,mirrors and wheels,although I think the grille could have been better integrated-but that was the corporate "face".Would I have another B1?No I wouldn't,but then nor would I have another B2!Would I have another X300 yes definitely!!

Well, using 1993 to gauge whether the Omega B1 looked unique when it came out is the only way.

But to judge the competition it's fine to compare to cars which were current through the B1's whole life. Or 1993-1999. Hence why I posted a couple of generations of BMW and Mercedes. I just didn't feel like searching and posting pictures of every single 4-door saloon in the Omega's category made in the world from 1993-1999. I thought I made the point well enough and this being a car forum people would have an idea of what was around then.  ;)

I have to disagree the Omega B1 looks effeminate. Look how little it took Steinmetz to make it look like a beast ready to jump on it's pray.  :)

I think what you are calling presence and style in the old Jaguar I would call old fashioned, conservative and overall low tech looking. Horses for courses as you see.  :y

And by the way, if you wouldn't want another Omega B1 or B2, it means you no longer have one, and even if you do, I must ask, what are you doing in an Omega forum? ::)
« Last Edit: 10 November 2016, 23:46:27 by anV6 »
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anV6

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Re: The Opel Omega B1 (aka Vauxhall Omega PFL) Design
« Reply #27 on: 10 November 2016, 23:34:12 »

One styling design that I've always liked on cars is a front airdam - even if it's only really cosmetic on a road car!

The PFL has two of them? What else do you want? ;)

And there were also versions that didn't have the fog lights and instead had larger air-dams.

Thirdly that Vauxhall MV6 bumper was never available in the Opels. Here it's only the uglier "fleet car" looking bumper.
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anV6

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Re: The Opel Omega B1 (aka Vauxhall Omega PFL) Design
« Reply #28 on: 10 November 2016, 23:38:28 »

You're not alone in thinking that PFL has 'something' in it's design.
Even today, it looks, well, quite well. It definitely aged better than most of the cars of it's time.

It definitely does. Look at that profile and clean lines:



You can just see the wind gliding over it effortlessly even with the car standing still. ;)
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dbug

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Re: The Opel Omega B1 (aka Vauxhall Omega PFL) Design
« Reply #29 on: 11 November 2016, 00:24:34 »

To be pedantic if you're using 1993 as your base date you'd need a picture of the XJ40,the X300[pictured didn't appear until late 1994.Anyway the Jaguar had style.The Omega B1 is for me very effeminately styled and lacks any kind of road presence,the B2 partly made up for this with its bigger bumpers,mirrors and wheels,although I think the grille could have been better integrated-but that was the corporate "face".Would I have another B1?No I wouldn't,but then nor would I have another B2!Would I have another X300 yes definitely!!

And by the way, if you wouldn't want another Omega B1 or B2, it means you no longer have one, and even if you do, I must ask, what are you doing in an Omega forum? ::)

This forum has always welcomed Omega owners who have moved on to newer and better cars.  I don't think its your place as a relative "newbie" to question why a long standing (4 years) member should come on to this forum if he's not prepared to buy another Omega!

I moved on a few years back after owning a few Omegas over the years to Jaguars (having owned a Mk2 3.8S saloon and a 3.8 E-Type back in the late 60s), and now run a 5.0V8 XJ Portfolio as my daily driver.  Are you suggesting that after some 9 years on this forum, I should no longer come on here?
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