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[Bigron]

Monsieur le Guffer, I DO think that as a cyclist you do not pay for the road. Paying a lot in other taxes and for cycle expenses is irrelevant to the issue.
Much as I admire Churchill as a wartime PM, I think he. like so many politicians, robbed a ring-fenced tax (which was set up solely for road funding - Road Fund Licence) and vired it off into other purposes. That started the rot and the huge breakdown in trust of our politicians that we experience today. Do you know anyone who trusts them?
Roads may  now be paid for out of general taxation, but so many other things are paid for out of motoring taxes, last recorded as being in excess of £52,000,000,000 per annum, with a mere £5,000,000,000 of benefit being returned to motoring services - less than 10% - with the rest being vired of into the NHS (worthy cause, but hidden taxation), Education, pointless wars abroad and MP's inflated salaries/expenses.

I still love you, despite your being wrong! 

Ron.

[Doctor Gollum]

It is Vehicle Excise Duty... not car tax and is paid into a general pot.

The roads are maintained by Highways, Councils and Private companies... all funded from the general pot and through Council Tax and Tolls.

What you're suggesting Ron, would imply that National insurance directly funds the NHS

[Nick W]

If cyclists want dedicated road space, they must pay for it, as do motorists, in the same way - via licensing and taxation. No contributution = no road space.

Most of us don't want dedicated road space, as it's bloody dangerous!
The real problem here is that there are lots of road users(whether they're vehicle drivers, cyclists, pedestrians, horse riders or other) that are temperamentally unsuited to the task in hand. These are the people who insist on going down the inside of trucks, speeding past schools at 60mph, running red lights on cycles, get furious when someone dares to overtake them etc, etc.


As for who pays to use the roads, consider this: a cycle does less damage to the road than a car and  takes up less space whether it's in use or not. In heavy any urban traffic it's usually the most efficient way of getting across town. Sometime we are all going to have to accept that personally owned motorised transport is unsustainable. I hope it isn't any time in the next thirty odd years, as it will require a bigger sociological change than the growth of the motor car 80 odd years ago

[Gaffers]

Look here, Matt, you're on our road. If you want to pedal about the place, get yourself a cycle lane. That's that, no more to say. 

I thought you were happy playing with yourself in the corner and the stack of german gay porn? 

[Bigron]

Ah Nick, I need to clarify: by dedicated, I didn't mean the segregated abortion that Boris introduced in London, creating dangerous and life-threatening problems for the emergency services - I'm with you on that one - but an entirely separate road network. Yes, I KNOW that is unfeasible on this small island of ours, so it was a debating point rather than a serious policy!

DG, I KNOW how the roads are fuinded now, but that is not what we were promised before Churchill did the dirty on us. A promise is a promise to most of us, but an ephemeral thing to our politicians, of whatgever colour.....

Ron.

P.S. Just think; if ALL the monies collected in motoring taxes (£52,000,000,000 remember) went into roads and other motoring benefits, we would be the envy of the motoring world - even the Yanks!

[Doctor Gollum]

Ron, a little research goes a long way...

https://www.retail-week.com/sectors/sports-and-leisure/wiggle-pedals-to-higher-full-year-profits-as-uk-sales-soar-26/7001466.article

That £153 MILLION... from a cycling based retailer. The tax revenue on that buys alot of roadspace and that's just one company.

[Nick W]

Ah Nick, I need to clarify: by dedicated, I didn't mean the segregated abortion that Boris introduced in London, creating dangerous and life-threatening problems for the emergency services - I'm with you on that one - but an entirely separate road network. Yes, I KNOW that is unfeasible on this small island of ours, so it was a debating point rather than a serious policy!

If only there was some other method of transport we all could use as an experiment to see if a separate network would work/be cost effective/usable. We could call it a railway

[Bigron]

OR, Plan B - tarmac over the entre rail network, but keep the signalling, and use it for cars? Direct and fuss-free, with maybe a side section for cycles, fenced off - very gentle gradients on the railway network, to ease the strain on the pedallers! 

Ron. (Prospective Minister for Transport).

[Andy H]

I like the way they lay out the N roads in Ireland.

A broad hard shoulder either side for use by tractors, cyclists, breakdowns etc.

[Gaffers]

Monsieur le Guffer, I DO think that as a cyclist you do not pay for the road. Paying a lot in other taxes and for cycle expenses is irrelevant to the issue.
Much as I admire Churchill as a wartime PM, I think he. like so many politicians, robbed a ring-fenced tax (which was set up solely for road funding - Road Fund Licence) and vired it off into other purposes. That started the rot and the huge breakdown in trust of our politicians that we experience today. Do you know anyone who trusts them?
Roads may  now be paid for out of general taxation, but so many other things are paid for out of motoring taxes, last recorded as being in excess of £52,000,000,000 per annum, with a mere £5,000,000,000 of benefit being returned to motoring services - less than 10% - with the rest being vired of into the NHS (worthy cause, but hidden taxation), Education, pointless wars abroad and MP's inflated salaries/expenses.

I still love you, despite your being wrong! 

Ron.

Love you too big fella, but you talk piffle here.  As Al stated, funding for the roads comes from general taxation.  Are you saying that a road user that pays no VED for that one vehicle (disregarding that they might pay it on others that they own) should not use the road?

[ronnyd]

Your Plan B might have worked ok before Beeching killed the railways Ron (lad ) But now there are miles between stations and tracks now so i reckon it,s back to the drawing board. 

[Bigron]

Re-instate what Beeching destroyed?

Ron.

[Gaffers]

Here is an example of the types of behaviour I see when I try to be courteous and follow the rules:

Near miss of the day

[Sir Tigger KC]

We could go round in circles all day providing example of the bad behaviour of all road users. 

I thought of this thread yesterday when I came up to some temporary road work traffic lights which were on red.  I stopped, but the cyclist in front sailed straight through without a care in the world! 

[aaronjb]

We could go round in circles all day providing example of the bad behaviour of all road users. 

Indeed - I watched a middle aged gentleman (OK, perhaps a little more than middle aged - 60s, I'd say) in an older Jag cut across the motorway to use the joining slip road to undertake a line of traffic, then use the hatched area separating that slip road from the next ...

Unfortunately for him he also sailed past a (marked, estate, 5 series) Police car who immediately pulled him over for a chat That cheered me up no end having spent 90 minutes on the M25 between the M4 and M1 junctions! </thread drift>

P.S. Guffer, you know the only electric vehicles that should be on the roads are those delivering milk, so yes, that Leaf-blower thing you have should be banned