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[Varche]

Luddites the lot of you.

Range will increase. A journalist took an electric car from London to a European capital city (amsterdam?) recently. Wherever it was it was just shy, I think, of 300 miles. Tesla x.

Range surely could easily be addressed by cassette extra batteries already charged ready for exchange at a service station.

If a new electric car was cheaper than a petrol car , the dynamics would change very quickly. E.g. Buy a car and rent the batteries. Government support for the battery part? Loads of possibilities. We arent thinking outside the box.

[LC0112G]

Range will increase.

How? Batteries have a finite energy capacity defined by the laws pf physics. Increasing the range means either increasing the size of the batteries, or increasing the efficiency of the use of the energy so it lasts longer. That means better aerodynamics, bearings, and driving slower - all these things can be improved, but only by fractions of a percent per iteration.

A journalist took an electric car from London to a European capital city (amsterdam?) recently. Wherever it was it was just shy, I think, of 300 miles. Tesla x.

Whoopee doo. A car with a 300 mile range. That's a real advance on the status quo.

Range surely could easily be addressed by cassette extra batteries already charged ready for exchange at a service station.

So for every car that want's to drive 300+ miles a day there has to be a second battery pack strategically placed somewhere downrange. So I wake up in the morning, find out that an American aircraft carrier is visiting Portsmouth with 80+ jets on deck, and I decide I want to go looksee. But first I have to make sure there is a 'spare' battery pack available in Pompey for me to swap out. And when I get to Pompey I discover there are are some B2's & B52s due in Fairford.

Spare battery packs would only work if every car used a standardised battery and there was a plenty full supply of them. Won't happen - the batteries will be the most expensive part of any car.

If a new electric car was cheaper than a petrol car , the dynamics would change very quickly. E.g. Buy a car and rent the batteries.

Dream on. How can half a ton of rare earth metals plus all the electric motors containing lots of copper ever be cheaper than a lump of pig iron and aluminium with 4/6/8 pots in it.

Government support for the battery part? Loads of possibilities. We arent thinking outside the box.

The government only has tax payers money to spend (i.e. yours and mine) , and speculating of vapourware ideas is a spectacularly poor use of such money.

[Varche]

All sound arguments but you are thinking in the box.

Remember how every fledgling idea has been rubbished through the ages.

The only thing that is constant is change and it is at an exponential rate.

Who says you have to use your own car 3 times to do a 900mile journey? Who says journeys of 300 plus a day will be permitted in the dark age of motoring we are heading for? 

[Entwood]

All sound arguments but you are thinking in the box.

Remember how every fledgling idea has been rubbished through the ages.

The only thing that is constant is change and it is at an exponential rate.

Who says you have to use your own car 3 times to do a 900mile journey? Who says journeys of 300 plus a day will be permitted in the dark age of motoring we are heading for? 

That's probably the key point .. drive 300 miles then swap the vehicle for an identical one that is pre-charged, leaving yours to be charged for the next user ..   all done on very short term hire, you no longer "own" a vehicle .. you "rent" it for the duration you need it . 

[LC0112G]

Remember how every fledgling idea has been rubbished through the ages.

The only thing that is constant is change and it is at an exponential rate.

Most changes start out by being incremental - evolutionary if you like. Once that change proves to be an 'improvement' others can take on the idea and develop it further. Initial development may well be exponential, but sooner or later the developments slow down and you get to the point of diminishing returns - the idea has been developed as far as it can be. We're at that point with many current technologies, batteries and cars included.

Who says you have to use your own car 3 times to do a 900mile journey? Who says journeys of 300 plus a day will be permitted in the dark age of motoring we are heading for? 

I have a car that's worth £500 tops, and a similar amount per year will see it taxed and insured. With 3 tanks of petrol (£200) I can do that 900 mile trip in perhaps 12 hours. I can leave tonight - well I could if I wasn't tanked up with cheap Rioja.  How is it any form of improvement telling me I have to pay for 3 electric cars, plus the electricity to run them to do that journey in the future - assuming the govt will allow me to do it?

Out of the box / Blue sky thinking my arris - what you're proposing is Big Brother Government controlling out movements.

[LC0112G]

That's probably the key point .. drive 300 miles then swap the vehicle for an identical one that is pre-charged, leaving yours to be charged for the next user ..   all done on very short term hire, you no longer "own" a vehicle .. you "rent" it for the duration you need it . 

But it's completely impractical. When you start out, how can you know that there is going to be a car available 300 miles in any random direction. Then another 300 miles further on. And what size of car? A Ford Ka or a nice roomy Omega. You're replacing the need to refill with petrol every 300  miles with the need to swap to a completely different car every 300 miles - and the car you drop off is unusable for up to 8 hours whilst it recharges, and is cleaned of all the pi55 and puke stains the previous occupant left.

[omega2018]

I have often said in 25 years all cars will be electric (apart from classics such as the Omega!! ), but now perhaps earlier?

It won't happen, 100% battery power is not the answer, petrol and diesel will continue to get cleaner and cleaner. Battery cars will continue as a "bit on the side" - with main bread and butter being petrol and diesel.

best have a sit down -
"New diesel and petrol vehicles to be banned from 2040 in UK"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40723581

[Sir Tigger KC]

Hydrogen is the future. Electric cars have been around for a century or more.

I'm working on teleportation.

Don't forget to hang up a fly swat in your teleportation machine.   

[Viral_Jim]

I'm calling Emperors new Clothes on this.

Unless someone came up with a new technology, that was more reliable, had higher energy density, charged faster and was made out of more readily available materials.

but you're right, the technology in this area is settled, so that would be really unlikely.

The point about Lithium Ion is that until comparatively recently it's done everything we've needed it to so comparatively few advances have been made. And new technologies always seem preposterous to the settled incumbents.

Consider trying to write the business case for using petrol today:

 There's a product, which we can only get from 100's of meters below the eath's surface. We're going to dig it up, refine it at great expense and ship it half way across the globe. It's highly flammable and potentially explosive, but  we're going to sell it to people and let them drive around at high speeds with it contained in a plastic box underneath their cars. Oh and when they use it it's going to release noxious chemicals onto the atmosphere.

People would tell you you were off your rocker. 

[LC0112G]

Consider trying to write the business case for using petrol today:

 There's a product, which we can only get from 100's of meters below the eath's surface. We're going to dig it up, refine it at great expense and ship it half way across the globe. It's highly flammable and potentially explosive, but  we're going to sell it to people and let them drive around at high speeds with it contained in a plastic box underneath their cars. Oh and when they use it it's going to release noxious chemicals onto the atmosphere.

People would tell you you were off your rocker. 

Consider trying to write the business case for using batteries today - made from various substances including Lithium, Sodium, Various Acids & Alkalies :

There's a product, which we can only get from 100's of meters below the earth's surface.  Check. Still need to generate the leccie somehow, and the Lithium comes from where?

We're going to dig it up, refine it at great expense and ship it half way across the globe. Check - Ditto.

It's highly flammable and potentially explosive, but  we're going to sell it to people and let them drive around at high speeds with it contained in a plastic box underneath their cars. Check, A Lithium Ion battery has never been known to catch fire.

Oh and when they use it it's going to release noxious chemicals onto the atmosphere. Check - where are 'dead' batteries going to go, and where is the electricity to charge them from coming from?

Smoke and mirrors. A politician announces a policy that's coming into effect 23 years in the future and we believe them?

[Kevin Wood]

Smoke and mirrors. A politician announces a policy that's coming into effect 23 years in the future and we believe them?

This is the point. He knows full well that he'll be dribbling into his cardigan in a care home by the time anybody has proved him wrong, so move along... nothing to see here.

[Varche]

The sad reality is cars are killing us indirectly.. where i live the nearest city is plagued by pollution. Something like 32 places outside London are over the Eurpean standard.- doing nothing is not an option.

So the French and British announce a ban on sales of new diesels etc. True 2040 might not be met but it is a stake in the ground.

I have a sneaky feeling that a plus benefit of all this will be a boost to GDP as perfectly good cars , that are cheap and can do big mileage in a day ( we have ourselves done 1500 in 24 hours) are hounded off the road.

I must move in the wrong circles - piss and puke in cars!  Easily overcome by design feature that allows the inside to be sluiced down while being recharged. No pukers/pissers could specify more luxurious vehicle with fabric and soft seats.

[chrisio]

I have a Leaf and range varies from between 60miles and 110miles INDICATED depending on the weather and how hard its been driven.  After 2.5 years we are begining to notice a drop off in the battery life.   Until they get the range from the batteries and also the life from the batteries its going to be non starter.  We are due a change of car in the next 6 months and we are dumping the leaf and going back to a small petrol. 

No doubt they suit some people (inner city with an abundance of public charge spots)  for us,  Cumbria and hardly any convient charge spots its a non starter.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

It's not just the 400 mile requirement - It's also the charging time. If I'm driving to Scotland or The Alps 400 miles will almost get me there, but I don't then want to wait 8+ hours to charge the thing up to go the rest of the way. It might work if you've got a 1-2 hour commute each day, and can recharge overnight, but you're also going to need a second car if you ever want to go 200+ miles away. Or you could take the plane/train and hire a car at the other end.

With a petrol car (Omega) I can do the 400 miles, then re-fill with petrol in 10 minutes (including having a shower, shave and s**t) and start the next 400 miles. Not possible in an electric/battery car.

The Physics of batteries is well understood, and has been for probably 50 years. Increases in performance have only come about because engineers have worked out how to extract various rare earth elements and use them in industrial processes, and package them in useable ways. These elements are both scarce and expensive.  Anyone telling you increases/improvements battery tech will solve the problems is whistling in the wind. Improvements from here on in will be incremental and follow the laws of diminishing returns.

I'm calling Emperors new Clothes on this.

Yes.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

All sound arguments but you are thinking in the box.

Remember how every fledgling idea has been rubbished through the ages.

The only thing that is constant is change and it is at an exponential rate.

Who says you have to use your own car 3 times to do a 900mile journey? Who says journeys of 300 plus a day will be permitted in the dark age of motoring we are heading for? 

That's probably the key point .. drive 300 miles then swap the vehicle for an identical one that is pre-charged, leaving yours to be charged for the next user ..   all done on very short term hire, you no longer "own" a vehicle .. you "rent" it for the duration you need it . 

Ah....but you don't know what the people before you used the car for. They may have been part of the local 'dogging club'.

I think I prefer my own car.