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[Viral_Jim]

I would argue the Chinese have no need to attack an adversary. Bankrupting them would be far more expedient

Have you ever tried to recover a debt from an individual or, worse still, a company?  Now imagine trying to recover a few trillion dollars from a country

No need, they'd just need to stop lending us more money, to fund our country which is very easy indeed. Or perhaps just stop exporting to us the clothes shoes, electronics and raw materials on which we rely. Or, in extremis act on the control we have ceded and continue to cede to them over critical parts of our infrastructure.

Sir Tig, left or right, I know a busted flush when I see one.  Although, given the relative ages of folk on this board, perhaps my view is more long termist than some

[LC0112G]

They are rapidly transforming their navy from a coastal defence force into a proper 'Blue Navy' with global reach.  Chinese ships recently passed through the English Channel on route to the Baltic Sea for exercises with the Russians! 

Those same ships are due in either Portsmouth or Plymouth for an official visit in the next few weeks.

[b4ndit]

They are rapidly transforming their navy from a coastal defence force into a proper 'Blue Navy' with global reach.  Chinese ships recently passed through the English Channel on route to the Baltic Sea for exercises with the Russians! 

Those same ships are due in either Portsmouth or Plymouth for an official visit in the next few weeks.

Due in Portamouth on the 18th august

[Sir Tigger KC]

Sir Tig, left or right, I know a busted flush when I see one.  Although, given the relative ages of folk on this board, perhaps my view is more negative than some

FTFY Jimmy. 

I see your point though Jimmy with all these wealthy baby boomers on here! 

[Viral_Jim]

Yup, retired at 42 on final salary pensions in a house they bought for 45d immediately after graduating from their all expenses paid vacations degree courses. Living off the sweat of us millenials who can hardly scrape together enough for an £18 smashed avocado on rye with balsamic dressing 4 or 5 times a week.

It's a bloody disgrace i tells ya! 

[Shackeng]

That is a joke, we are a maritime nation, yet the Royal Navy is down to less than 30 fighting ships available at any time, including one carrier without aircraft, good for missile target practice, which will require a fifth of the navy as escorts, and has more Admirals than ships. The air force has no maritime a/c to defend our island nation (some - perhaps - due in the future) and the Army is at its lowest peacetime level ever.

Global Power? I think not.

[Rods2]

This may pursuance the doubters about UK power:

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/study-finds-uk-is-second-most-powerful-country-in-the-world/

 

Well done Lizzie, it was this article that prompted my question to see what the current UK citizens perception and reaction would be to the UK's standing in the world. As expected the anti-UK factions of society are exactly that.

Key to global force projection are your fixed aircraft carriers like Gibraltar, Cyprus, Ascension and The Falklands and your mobile aircraft carriers, frigates, submarine and RFA support ships and RAF heavy lift capacity. We are one of the few countries with logistic support systems that can do this out of area forces support. Russia and China who both currently have formidable local defense forces but would struggle to fight beyond their own back yard as we have seen with Russia in Syria. China over the next 10 years will have developed this sort of capacity, Russia can't and won't.

[Sir Tigger KC]

You are all looking at this from the wrong angle ie in terms of military hard power, when it is as much about the soft power that we project around the world. 

The article mentions that France has overtaken us in the soft power rankings since Macrons election, but I suspect that this will be temporary as I think that Macron will turn out to be a damp squib. 

We spend £13 billion odd a year in overseas aid and whether this money is well spent or not is a different argument, but some of it must hit the mark and generate goodwill towards the UK and curry favour and influence. 

[Kevin Wood]

Yup, retired at 42 on final salary pensions in a house they bought for 45d immediately after graduating from their all expenses paid vacations degree courses. Living off the sweat of us millenials who can hardly scrape together enough for an £18 smashed avocado on rye with balsamic dressing 4 or 5 times a week.

It's a bloody disgrace i tells ya! 

You forgot the bit about it being served on a bit of old railway sleeper, but, otherwise.

[tigers_gonads]

This may pursuance the doubters about UK power:

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/study-finds-uk-is-second-most-powerful-country-in-the-world/

 

Well done Lizzie, it was this article that prompted my question to see what the current UK citizens perception and reaction would be to the UK's standing in the world. As expected the anti-UK factions of society are exactly that.

Key to global force projection are your fixed aircraft carriers like Gibraltar, Cyprus, Ascension and The Falklands and your mobile aircraft carriers, frigates, submarine and RFA support ships and RAF heavy lift capacity. We are one of the few countries with logistic support systems that can do this out of area forces support. Russia and China who both currently have formidable local defense forces but would struggle to fight beyond their own back yard as we have seen with Russia in Syria. China over the next 10 years will have developed this sort of capacity, Russia can't and won't.

China has already done it Rods in Africa and is working its way across the Far East to the point that Indonesia has all but put its hands up the new kids on the block from Beijing

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/africa/2015/05/150509084913175.html

Your best mate in Moscow has setup permanently whether we like it or not in Syria and is rapidly making ground in Cyprus to the point that Paphos is a military airbase in all but name
And that's not including his softly softly campaign to claim back those countries which Moscow lost in the 90's 

[Lizzie Zoom]

This may pursuance the doubters about UK power:

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/study-finds-uk-is-second-most-powerful-country-in-the-world/

 

Well done Lizzie, it was this article that prompted my question to see what the current UK citizens perception and reaction would be to the UK's standing in the world. As expected the anti-UK factions of society are exactly that.

Key to global force projection are your fixed aircraft carriers like Gibraltar, Cyprus, Ascension and The Falklands and your mobile aircraft carriers, frigates, submarine and RFA support ships and RAF heavy lift capacity. We are one of the few countries with logistic support systems that can do this out of area forces support. Russia and China who both currently have formidable local defense forces but would struggle to fight beyond their own back yard as we have seen with Russia in Syria. China over the next 10 years will have developed this sort of capacity, Russia can't and won't.

China has already done it Rods in Africa and is working its way across the Far East to the point that Indonesia has all but put its hands up the new kids on the block from Beijing

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/africa/2015/05/150509084913175.html

Your best mate in Moscow has setup permanently whether we like it or not in Syria and is rapidly making ground in Cyprus to the point that Paphos is a military airbase in all but name
And that's not including his softly softly campaign to claim back those countries which Moscow lost in the 90's 

Don't understand that point at all.  Cyprus is the Republic of Cyprus, with one half in Greek hands, the other half in Turkish hands since their invasion of the island.  The Republic of Cyprus was created after the island gained it's independence from Britain in 1960, and has since become part of the EU and the Eurozone.  Hence it sees it future as part of Europe, not a part of a newly expanded Russia.  The people have no connection with Russia or China, so would not be inclined to go in that direction.  Indeed, although the politics in Cyprus have been troubled, they want the benefit of European defence, including having a British base there.

I am sure that if Russia made any moves towards Cyprus, not only would the people of the island have something to say, but so would the EU, Britain, and the UN.  Cyprus is a key island in the Mediterranean, as is Malta, in terms of a military base which would never be handed over easily to Russia or China.

[tigers_gonads]

This may pursuance the doubters about UK power:

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/study-finds-uk-is-second-most-powerful-country-in-the-world/

 

Well done Lizzie, it was this article that prompted my question to see what the current UK citizens perception and reaction would be to the UK's standing in the world. As expected the anti-UK factions of society are exactly that.

Key to global force projection are your fixed aircraft carriers like Gibraltar, Cyprus, Ascension and The Falklands and your mobile aircraft carriers, frigates, submarine and RFA support ships and RAF heavy lift capacity. We are one of the few countries with logistic support systems that can do this out of area forces support. Russia and China who both currently have formidable local defense forces but would struggle to fight beyond their own back yard as we have seen with Russia in Syria. China over the next 10 years will have developed this sort of capacity, Russia can't and won't.

China has already done it Rods in Africa and is working its way across the Far East to the point that Indonesia has all but put its hands up the new kids on the block from Beijing

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/africa/2015/05/150509084913175.html

Your best mate in Moscow has setup permanently whether we like it or not in Syria and is rapidly making ground in Cyprus to the point that Paphos is a military airbase in all but name
And that's not including his softly softly campaign to claim back those countries which Moscow lost in the 90's 

Don't understand that point at all.  Cyprus is the Republic of Cyprus, with one half in Greek hands, the other half in Turkish hands since their invasion of the island.  The Republic of Cyprus was created after the island gained it's independence from Britain in 1960, and has since become part of the EU and the Eurozone.  Hence it sees it future as part of Europe, not a part of a newly expanded Russia.  The people have no connection with Russia or China, so would not be inclined to go in that direction.  Indeed, although the politics in Cyprus have been troubled, they want the benefit of European defence, including having a British base there.

I am sure that if Russia made any moves towards Cyprus, not only would the people of the island have something to say, but so would the EU, Britain, and the UN.  Cyprus is a key island in the Mediterranean, as is Malta, in terms of a military base which would never be handed over easily to Russia or China.

Might sound like Rods here    but Russian mafia has had a big say in the Greek side of Cyprus for a good 10 years that I know of 

Putin negotiated a deal with the Greek Cypriot government quite a few years ago to give them exclusive use to a section of Paphos airport so they can fly in military aircraft (of the transport kind  ) at will.

Personally, I believe Vlad the Bad has taken a leaf out of China's book and is playing the softly softly game in Cyprus.

Not like they has never been a soviet presence on the island of course 
There was some pretty strong rumours going around military personnel during the 80's about the owner of a certain kebab shop outside the gates of Raf Akrotiri 

[Rods2]

This may pursuance the doubters about UK power:

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/study-finds-uk-is-second-most-powerful-country-in-the-world/

 

Well done Lizzie, it was this article that prompted my question to see what the current UK citizens perception and reaction would be to the UK's standing in the world. As expected the anti-UK factions of society are exactly that.

Key to global force projection are your fixed aircraft carriers like Gibraltar, Cyprus, Ascension and The Falklands and your mobile aircraft carriers, frigates, submarine and RFA support ships and RAF heavy lift capacity. We are one of the few countries with logistic support systems that can do this out of area forces support. Russia and China who both currently have formidable local defense forces but would struggle to fight beyond their own back yard as we have seen with Russia in Syria. China over the next 10 years will have developed this sort of capacity, Russia can't and won't.

China has already done it Rods in Africa and is working its way across the Far East to the point that Indonesia has all but put its hands up the new kids on the block from Beijing

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/africa/2015/05/150509084913175.html

Your best mate in Moscow has setup permanently whether we like it or not in Syria and is rapidly making ground in Cyprus to the point that Paphos is a military airbase in all but name
And that's not including his softly softly campaign to claim back those countries which Moscow lost in the 90's 

Don't understand that point at all.  Cyprus is the Republic of Cyprus, with one half in Greek hands, the other half in Turkish hands since their invasion of the island.  The Republic of Cyprus was created after the island gained it's independence from Britain in 1960, and has since become part of the EU and the Eurozone.  Hence it sees it future as part of Europe, not a part of a newly expanded Russia.  The people have no connection with Russia or China, so would not be inclined to go in that direction.  Indeed, although the politics in Cyprus have been troubled, they want the benefit of European defence, including having a British base there.

I am sure that if Russia made any moves towards Cyprus, not only would the people of the island have something to say, but so would the EU, Britain, and the UN.  Cyprus is a key island in the Mediterranean, as is Malta, in terms of a military base which would never be handed over easily to Russia or China.

Might sound like Rods here    but Russian mafia has had a big say in the Greek side of Cyprus for a good 10 years that I know of 

Putin negotiated a deal with the Greek Cypriot government quite a few years ago to give them exclusive use to a section of Paphos airport so they can fly in military aircraft (of the transport kind  ) at will.

Personally, I believe Vlad the Bad has taken a leaf out of China's book and is playing the softly softly game in Cyprus.

Not like they has never been a soviet presence on the island of course 
There was some pretty strong rumours going around military personnel during the 80's about the owner of a certain kebab shop outside the gates of Raf Akrotiri 

Cyprus is the Russian mafia's country of choice for dodgy money deposits where they have a very favourable Soviet era Russia-Cyprus double taxation treaty. This was also why Merkel insisted on a bank deposit bail-in during their banking crisis. Another two massive money laundering countries are the UK and US. If you want to launder $1000 in either of the countries, you will have to provide proof of address, id etc. and have problems. However, if you want to launder $10m there are plenty of bankers, solicitors, accountants, estate agent or businesses that for the right fees are happy to help.

[Lizzie Zoom]

This may pursuance the doubters about UK power:

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/study-finds-uk-is-second-most-powerful-country-in-the-world/

 

Well done Lizzie, it was this article that prompted my question to see what the current UK citizens perception and reaction would be to the UK's standing in the world. As expected the anti-UK factions of society are exactly that.

Key to global force projection are your fixed aircraft carriers like Gibraltar, Cyprus, Ascension and The Falklands and your mobile aircraft carriers, frigates, submarine and RFA support ships and RAF heavy lift capacity. We are one of the few countries with logistic support systems that can do this out of area forces support. Russia and China who both currently have formidable local defense forces but would struggle to fight beyond their own back yard as we have seen with Russia in Syria. China over the next 10 years will have developed this sort of capacity, Russia can't and won't.

China has already done it Rods in Africa and is working its way across the Far East to the point that Indonesia has all but put its hands up the new kids on the block from Beijing

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/africa/2015/05/150509084913175.html

Your best mate in Moscow has setup permanently whether we like it or not in Syria and is rapidly making ground in Cyprus to the point that Paphos is a military airbase in all but name
And that's not including his softly softly campaign to claim back those countries which Moscow lost in the 90's 

Don't understand that point at all.  Cyprus is the Republic of Cyprus, with one half in Greek hands, the other half in Turkish hands since their invasion of the island.  The Republic of Cyprus was created after the island gained it's independence from Britain in 1960, and has since become part of the EU and the Eurozone.  Hence it sees it future as part of Europe, not a part of a newly expanded Russia.  The people have no connection with Russia or China, so would not be inclined to go in that direction.  Indeed, although the politics in Cyprus have been troubled, they want the benefit of European defence, including having a British base there.

I am sure that if Russia made any moves towards Cyprus, not only would the people of the island have something to say, but so would the EU, Britain, and the UN.  Cyprus is a key island in the Mediterranean, as is Malta, in terms of a military base which would never be handed over easily to Russia or China.

Might sound like Rods here    but Russian mafia has had a big say in the Greek side of Cyprus for a good 10 years that I know of 

Putin negotiated a deal with the Greek Cypriot government quite a few years ago to give them exclusive use to a section of Paphos airport so they can fly in military aircraft (of the transport kind  ) at will.

Personally, I believe Vlad the Bad has taken a leaf out of China's book and is playing the softly softly game in Cyprus.

Not like they has never been a soviet presence on the island of course 
There was some pretty strong rumours going around military personnel during the 80's about the owner of a certain kebab shop outside the gates of Raf Akrotiri 

Cyprus is the Russian mafia's country of choice for dodgy money deposits where they have a very favourable Soviet era Russia-Cyprus double taxation treaty. This was also why Merkel insisted on a bank deposit bail-in during their banking crisis. Another two massive money laundering countries are the UK and US. If you want to launder $1000 in either of the countries, you will have to provide proof of address, id etc. and have problems. However, if you want to launder $10m there are plenty of bankers, solicitors, accountants, estate agent or businesses that for the right fees are happy to help.

Ah, right.  So it is all about fraudulent banking practices? Most all western countries are guilty of that one. Don't think it will lead to the take over of countries though.  Mind you, western bankers, including those in Britain, bank rolled the Nazis throughout WW2 so I suppose anything is possible!

[tigers_gonads]

This may pursuance the doubters about UK power:

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/study-finds-uk-is-second-most-powerful-country-in-the-world/

 

Well done Lizzie, it was this article that prompted my question to see what the current UK citizens perception and reaction would be to the UK's standing in the world. As expected the anti-UK factions of society are exactly that.

Key to global force projection are your fixed aircraft carriers like Gibraltar, Cyprus, Ascension and The Falklands and your mobile aircraft carriers, frigates, submarine and RFA support ships and RAF heavy lift capacity. We are one of the few countries with logistic support systems that can do this out of area forces support. Russia and China who both currently have formidable local defense forces but would struggle to fight beyond their own back yard as we have seen with Russia in Syria. China over the next 10 years will have developed this sort of capacity, Russia can't and won't.

China has already done it Rods in Africa and is working its way across the Far East to the point that Indonesia has all but put its hands up the new kids on the block from Beijing

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/africa/2015/05/150509084913175.html

Your best mate in Moscow has setup permanently whether we like it or not in Syria and is rapidly making ground in Cyprus to the point that Paphos is a military airbase in all but name
And that's not including his softly softly campaign to claim back those countries which Moscow lost in the 90's 

Don't understand that point at all.  Cyprus is the Republic of Cyprus, with one half in Greek hands, the other half in Turkish hands since their invasion of the island.  The Republic of Cyprus was created after the island gained it's independence from Britain in 1960, and has since become part of the EU and the Eurozone.  Hence it sees it future as part of Europe, not a part of a newly expanded Russia.  The people have no connection with Russia or China, so would not be inclined to go in that direction.  Indeed, although the politics in Cyprus have been troubled, they want the benefit of European defence, including having a British base there.

I am sure that if Russia made any moves towards Cyprus, not only would the people of the island have something to say, but so would the EU, Britain, and the UN.  Cyprus is a key island in the Mediterranean, as is Malta, in terms of a military base which would never be handed over easily to Russia or China.

Might sound like Rods here    but Russian mafia has had a big say in the Greek side of Cyprus for a good 10 years that I know of 

Putin negotiated a deal with the Greek Cypriot government quite a few years ago to give them exclusive use to a section of Paphos airport so they can fly in military aircraft (of the transport kind  ) at will.

Personally, I believe Vlad the Bad has taken a leaf out of China's book and is playing the softly softly game in Cyprus.

Not like they has never been a soviet presence on the island of course 
There was some pretty strong rumours going around military personnel during the 80's about the owner of a certain kebab shop outside the gates of Raf Akrotiri 

Cyprus is the Russian mafia's country of choice for dodgy money deposits where they have a very favourable Soviet era Russia-Cyprus double taxation treaty. This was also why Merkel insisted on a bank deposit bail-in during their banking crisis. Another two massive money laundering countries are the UK and US. If you want to launder $1000 in either of the countries, you will have to provide proof of address, id etc. and have problems. However, if you want to launder $10m there are plenty of bankers, solicitors, accountants, estate agent or businesses that for the right fees are happy to help.

Ah, right.  So it is all about fraudulent banking practices? Most all western countries are guilty of that one. Don't think it will lead to the take over of countries though.  Mind you, western bankers, including those in Britain, bank rolled the Nazis throughout WW2 so I suppose anything is possible!

Not really Liz 

My take on Russia and Cyprus is that the money and Russian mafia wouldn't have such a foothold there if it didn't have Putin's blessing and Putin ALWAYS has another angle   

Money buys you influence and power wherever you are on this planet.
I don't believe Russia has any intention of invading Cyprus.
Why would it when it already has Syria in its pocket and it owns most of Cyprus anyway