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[LC0112G]

Smart meters will become compulsory and we'll all have to have them at some point. 

Well in this household you're either going to have to run a phone line to any forcibly installed smart meter, or you're going to have to find a way to defeat the farriday cage which I'll build around the newly installed meter.

But when I said a smart meter being able to tell whether a car was being charged I meant a future generation of smart meter, and yes I believe it would be very do-able! 

How exactly?

Anyway who said anything about rewiring houses?    I certainly didn't!    But it wouldn't be much work to have a spur from the main to a dedicated car charging point with it's own meter. 

How do you expect to extract several tens of kW out of your existing household supply without rewiring? Very few houses or domestic premises are connected to a three phase supply. Most domestic premises are single phase and fused at 60-80A, so that's about 15-20kW tops. The highest consumption device in a house is often the cooker - typically fused at 30-45A so 7.5-10kW. A 13A plug on a ring main will supply at most 3kW. Current Tesla batteries are 75-100kW. You think you're going to be able to take that amount of power from your domestic supply without some rewiring?

They will have to work out some way of generating revenue from electric cars.... 

Yes, but people don't use Petrol/Diesel for much else but cars, so it's easy to tax them at the point of sale - the petrol station. Trying to tax electricity when used for cars alone will be a nightmare. 70% of the cost of petrol is tax/duty. Currently electricity costs around 12-13p per unit (kWh). If you attempt to impose a similar tax/duty on electricity used for cars then the per unit price becomes something like 40p per kWh. Charging a 100kW Tesla suddenly costs £40 rather than the £12 it currently does. Explain to me how you're going to stop people just 'trickle charging' their car from a 13A socket @ £12 rather than the dedicated 3 phase socket @ £40. Ok it'll take much much longer, but be a hell of a lot cheaper. 

[Doctor Gollum]

The inconvenience becomes a tax burden in its own right

[Bigron]

Why would you want to impose that kind of tax anyway? Most of the revenue collected from the Road Fund Licence goes to other funding, not motoring benefits, so whatever payment avoided by our going electric will have to be garnered from general taxation, as I keep saying (yes, i know - repeatedly) that it should. The government has duped us for long enough with this hidden virement.

Ron.

[LC0112G]

Why would you want to impose that kind of tax anyway? Most of the revenue collected from the Road Fund Licence goes to other funding, not motoring benefits, so whatever payment avoided by our going electric will have to be garnered from general taxation, as I keep saying (yes, i know - repeatedly) that it should. The government has duped us for long enough with this hidden virement.

Ron.

Well, I wouldn't want to, but fuel duty raises £27.5 Bn (Billion!!!) per year for the treasury. That's excluding the VAT which is charged on top of the duty. Source:
http://obr.uk/forecasts-in-depth/tax-by-tax-spend-by-spend/fuel-duties/

That's over half the defence budget, about one third of the education budget, and one hell of a hole to fill if we all suddenly all go electric. It would represent between 2% and 3% additional income tax. So is your role in the new post revoloution OOF government Chancellor or Minister for Transport?

As Benjamin Franklin supposedly once said, the only certainties in life are death and taxes.

[Bigron]

I have to ask, why "motoring" taxes at all? We ALL benefit from having roads, even the little old lady who just pops to Tesco's round the corner, because Tesco's must have lorries to bring them stock.
The time has come to stop regarding motoring taxes, including that on petrol, as a special case.
RFL revenue has been raided ever since Churchill, so let us now fund the roads, etc., from general taxation, since they benefit everyone and remove all RFL (VED, if you must call it that) and petrol taxes altogether and we can all relax and stop searching for alternative solutions.
Oh, and the pollution argument is fallacious - it is simply a massive con to make us compliant.

Ron.

[Rods2]

Thanks, Rods2, I'll start working on my agenda in the morning. Expect radical changes.
Do we really need speed limits?.....

Ron.

IOM doesn't outside their villages and towns and have found since having a word if somebody is speeding in these it reduces the offending rate more than issuing a ticket.

[LC0112G]

I have to ask, why "motoring" taxes at all? We ALL benefit from having roads, even the little old lady who just pops to Tesco's .....

Because the public are idiots, and keep voting in government that make manifesto pledges not to raise income tax, national insurance or VAT, and then expect a health service, social security and education spending to increase and meet all their expectations. Having ruled out Income tax, NI and VAT you end up with all sorts of nonsense - Insurance Premium Tax, Flight Departure Tax, Pasty Tax and yes fuel duty and VEL/Road Tax trying to plug the gap.

[Bigron]

Yes, that is a fair assessment, LCO112G. What a mess we have got ourselves into.
The IOM seem to have the right idea, but of course they don't have BIG government there and as many self-serving shiney-arses with obscene salaries to pay for, so they can keep things simple and sensible.
TB will have to be busy and rid us of these parasites.....

Ron.

[Kevin Wood]

How do you expect to extract several tens of kW out of your existing household supply without rewiring? Very few houses or domestic premises are connected to a three phase supply. Most domestic premises are single phase and fused at 60-80A, so that's about 15-20kW tops. The highest consumption device in a house is often the cooker - typically fused at 30-45A so 7.5-10kW. A 13A plug on a ring main will supply at most 3kW. Current Tesla batteries are 75-100kW. You think you're going to be able to take that amount of power from your domestic supply without some rewiring?

Not to mention that a typical suberb will be wired with diversity based on only 1-2kW per premises, probably less overnight. If everyone comes home, plugs in their Tesla, puts the kettle on, starts cooking dinner, etc. the local substation and its distribution wiring is going to get a little upset.

[Rods2]

I have to ask, why "motoring" taxes at all? We ALL benefit from having roads, even the little old lady who just pops to Tesco's round the corner, because Tesco's must have lorries to bring them stock.
The time has come to stop regarding motoring taxes, including that on petrol, as a special case.
RFL revenue has been raided ever since Churchill, so let us now fund the roads, etc., from general taxation, since they benefit everyone and remove all RFL (VED, if you must call it that) and petrol taxes altogether and we can all relax and stop searching for alternative solutions.
Oh, and the pollution argument is fallacious - it is simply a massive con to make us compliant.

Ron.

It is obvious why we need these taxes. Once the field, pavement and road taxes infrastructure has been paid for in about 9 months, the person with the idea for this tax, me, along with the president and the transport minister each get 5% of the revenue raised each month where we need to each have a basic living wage. Where there will be no speed limits we can then spend it on fast women and even faster cars. If Lord Opti had volunteered to be chancellor we would of given him 5% as well but as he hasn't that offer has expired.

If anybody objects to our basic living wages just remind them of the first law of being a politician, be very, very generous with other people's money when looking after your wages, pensions and expenses.

[Bigron]

I love your contribution to my policy portfolio, Rods2, but I do have a small reservation (no, NOT rude!); am I still up to fast women?
It would take a fully-resourced NHS to care for me afterwards! 

Ron.

[Rods2]

How do you expect to extract several tens of kW out of your existing household supply without rewiring? Very few houses or domestic premises are connected to a three phase supply. Most domestic premises are single phase and fused at 60-80A, so that's about 15-20kW tops. The highest consumption device in a house is often the cooker - typically fused at 30-45A so 7.5-10kW. A 13A plug on a ring main will supply at most 3kW. Current Tesla batteries are 75-100kW. You think you're going to be able to take that amount of power from your domestic supply without some rewiring?

Not to mention that a typical suberb will be wired with diversity based on only 1-2kW per premises, probably less overnight. If everyone comes home, plugs in their Tesla, puts the kettle on, starts cooking dinner, etc. the local substation and its distribution wiring is going to get a little upset.

1. Local substations will be safe as when the intermittent wind, takes a pause the whole grid will collapse, like regularly happens in South Australia.

2. People will then be told to disconnect all appliances, so the grid can be rebooted district by district over 12 to 24 hours.

3. Once the grid has been restored and lots of people try to charge their cars again, go back to point 1 and repeat.

[Bigron]

Ok, then let's have a little petrol engine, say a 2.6 litre V6, to charge the battery and carry on without the need to plug in to the public supply - good idea? 

Ron.

[Rods2]

I love your contribution to my policy portfolio, Rods2, but I do have a small reservation (no, NOT rude!); am I still up to fast women?
It would take a fully-resourced NHS to care for me afterwards! 

Ron.

Just pace yourself and as you get fitter it will get easier. Remember a politicians life is hard one for little reward, but somebody has to do it and we will all just have put up with our luxury, pampered lifestyles after all the EU Commission seems to manage.

[Sir Tigger KC]

Smart meters will become compulsory and we'll all have to have them at some point. 

Well in this household you're either going to have to run a phone line to any forcibly installed smart meter, or you're going to have to find a way to defeat the farriday cage which I'll build around the newly installed meter.

But when I said a smart meter being able to tell whether a car was being charged I meant a future generation of smart meter, and yes I believe it would be very do-able! 

How exactly?

Anyway who said anything about rewiring houses?    I certainly didn't!    But it wouldn't be much work to have a spur from the main to a dedicated car charging point with it's own meter. 

How do you expect to extract several tens of kW out of your existing household supply without rewiring? Very few houses or domestic premises are connected to a three phase supply. Most domestic premises are single phase and fused at 60-80A, so that's about 15-20kW tops. The highest consumption device in a house is often the cooker - typically fused at 30-45A so 7.5-10kW. A 13A plug on a ring main will supply at most 3kW. Current Tesla batteries are 75-100kW. You think you're going to be able to take that amount of power from your domestic supply without some rewiring?

They will have to work out some way of generating revenue from electric cars.... 

Yes, but people don't use Petrol/Diesel for much else but cars, so it's easy to tax them at the point of sale - the petrol station. Trying to tax electricity when used for cars alone will be a nightmare. 70% of the cost of petrol is tax/duty. Currently electricity costs around 12-13p per unit (kWh). If you attempt to impose a similar tax/duty on electricity used for cars then the per unit price becomes something like 40p per kWh. Charging a 100kW Tesla suddenly costs £40 rather than the £12 it currently does. Explain to me how you're going to stop people just 'trickle charging' their car from a 13A socket @ £12 rather than the dedicated 3 phase socket @ £40. Ok it'll take much much longer, but be a hell of a lot cheaper.

Point 1) If you build a faraday cage around your shiny new smart meter, they won't get the readings so they'll send a meter guy round get the readings manually and you will be prosecuted for tampering with your meter.  Or eliminated maybe! 

Point 2) I havn't got a crystal ball, nor am I a smart meter inventor so I don't know exactly, but I'm sure that they will figure out how to analyse your electricity usage to work out whether or not you are charging your car.

Point 3) If you feel you need a 3 phase supply for charging your car, then it will be a separate supply with it's own main fuse and meter.  A costly installation for sure, but will not need any rewiring of the houses existing single phase system. Existing fast charge units draw 7kw and I sure could be metered separately. However as well as not having a crystal ball, nor being a smart meter inventor, neither am I an electrician so my knowledge here is sketchy.  So I freely admit that I am speculating and don't really know what I am talking about. 

Point 4) People will always try to get around rules and regulations, but I'm sure that with future technology and laws that forbid charging from anywhere but a separately metered car charging point (Where the juice is taxed so more expensive) they will work out how to raise the revenue.  More speculation and bullshit I'm afraid, but it's the best I can do for you at this moment in time!