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[Lizzie Zoom]

I've never been told by any tyre company to check my wheel nuts after X miles - not even kwikshit, who will deny responsibility for anything. However, there is a tyre-cum-breakers near Wareham (Trents) who display large signs with big red letters advising tyre customers to bring the vehicle back after 50 miles to have the wheelnuts checked. This puts the onus on them and not the customer for the safety of the vehicle - which is exactly where it should lie.

Ron.

My local tyre fitter of choice has always had the advisory on the invoice to check the tightness of the nuts/bolts after a few miles and most of the guys also verbally remind the customers as well.

But I would challenge the legality of that as it is not reasonable, or practical, to expect a member of the public to do that, or remember to get a garage to check them, when, if the tyre fitter was doing his job properly and tightening the bolts correctly for long term use, then it should never be necessary, as, I would submit in legal argument, wheels do not regularly fall off when most motorists never carryout that re-tightening procedure.  It is an unreasonable obligation being placed on the consumer as a "Get out Clause" to inhibit potential legal action against the tyre fitter if anything goes wrong.  Motorists drive regularly 1,000's of miles between tyre changes, often on business, let alone domestic use,  without re-checking those nuts, without any incident transpiring.  That can be evidenced with the testimonies of millions of drivers, but can it be proved that the non-re-tightening of wheel nuts if done after 50 miles, or higher mileages, causes such a massive loss of a wheel, if the tyre fitter did his job correctly in the first instance?  Can that actually be evidenced?

Just my thoughts, which may seem mad to some, but such practices by retailers and suppliers should be legally judged for their reasonableness, and questioned for their practical application, and not just an attempt to avoid legal action when they get it wrong.  In other words nothing should not be questioned in law.

It,s surprising how many times that advisory or comments from MOT testers came up that wheel nuts were missing or loose. This was when i was looking for a car to replace the Desmond and was checking the history.

But with MOT's that would be in the main for private vehicles and ones that do not cover high mileage, and , I suggest, the MOT failures/advisories are often, not always perhaps, for poorly maintained cars, not for ones who in particular have visited a tyre outlet very recently.

I would add that I, and colleagues, in my past extensive national business drove 100's of thousands of miles over months and we often needed new tyres. When they were fitted none of us checked our wheel nuts but I can safely say we all never lost a wheel, and, driving at the speeds we often did, if what the disclaimer states was true to actual practice we should have lost them all the time!

Can you see my logic?  I am very cynical of that disclaimer which I would legally challenge is only there to protect the dealer from legal claims of malpractice when their fitter gets it wrong.

[Sir Tigger KC]

Can you see my logic?  I am very cynical of that disclaimer which I would legally challenge is only there to protect the dealer from legal claims of malpractice when their fitter gets it wrong.

Yes certainly worth getting advice about that, as odds are that it's not worth the paper it's written on if the dealer has be negligent. 

[Varche]

Getting pretty tired now one way and another.

Arrived at stealer this morning . Job complete and I notice one bolt cover missing. Very obvious. However in the ensuing making sure we had asked all the right questions including

Was the locking wheel bolt loose when we arrived. Yes ( i thought it was too as the remover was still in the car)

Do I need to come back and check the torque after 50 mles. No

Were all the other three wheel tight Yes

What the report said. ( predictably not a lot other than wheel was loose on arrival)

So we left without the sodding bolt cover. Unimpressed that they forgot it.

Fifty miles down the road we stopped for a coffee to decide whether to continue or turn around and head back to UK dealer. Decided to continue. Going to ask French dealer to post the cover on.

First bit of decent motorway we get up to 130 kmh and there is a bad vibration. Lessens at 120 or 140.  So is that front wheels out of balance or transmission tatered? The swapped over tyre on new rim was balanced supposedly.

Confidence in the car is fairly low. Ideally I would like to go to yet another VW dealer and get their opinion. Even more expense. I havegot to the point where I am hearing noises and expecting the wheel to come loose again.

If I could just get another identical car , I would. However it was really hard getting this one and we have invested money in it.

Bill for wheel and changing tyre was 830 euros. Now over 1000 euros out of pocket.

Going to ring the UK dealer on Friday.

Managed to get to Angouleme today in what little travelling time was available we have set target of a place near San Sebastion for tomorrow.

[Doctor Gollum]

Check the wheel nuts again. If you find they are loose, call VW immediately.

[Doctor Gollum]

I won't copy LZs essay but I disagree with pretty much all of it.

Firstly, having been in a car that was written off when a rear wheel came off at speed, I would suggest that you heed the advice to get the bolts retorqued at the suggested interval.

If it were a bs money making scheme it wouldn't be enough to make an HGV VOR until it's been done. 

[Sir Tigger KC]

Use the wheel brace in the boot to check the wheel nuts periodically and get yourself home! 

Then deal with it in the sunshine! 

[Varche]

Might not be one but will have a look.  Good suggestion.

[Sir Tigger KC]

Might not be one but will have a look.  Good suggestion.

Ah yes you've probably just got a can of goo.....       

If that's the case I'm sure you'll find something suitable in somewhere like Castorama cheaply enough. 

[Doctor Gollum]

Might not be one but will have a look.  Good suggestion.

Ah yes you've probably just got a can of goo.....       

If that's the case I'm sure you'll find something suitable in somewhere like Castorama cheaply enough. 

Giving the bolts a tap with the screw in towing eye will identify the loose ones as they will sound different. 

[Lizzie Zoom]

Might not be one but will have a look.  Good suggestion.

Ah yes you've probably just got a can of goo.....       

If that's the case I'm sure you'll find something suitable in somewhere like Castorama cheaply enough. 

Giving the bolts a tap with the screw in towing eye will identify the loose ones as they will sound different. 

That's a good tip and reminds me of the wheel tappers of old railway days.  Do they still exist for modern rail wheels or is it done using high tech ways?

Who remembers the Wheel Tappers and Shunters Club in black & white tv days?

[Nick W]

I won't copy LZs essay but I disagree with pretty much all of it.

Firstly, having been in a car that was written off when a rear wheel came off at speed, I would suggest that you heed the advice to get the bolts retorqued at the suggested interval.

If it were a bs money making scheme it wouldn't be enough to make an HGV VOR until it's been done. 

I'm with you on every point.


Loose wheels IS a common problem. Sometimes tightening the nuts is enough. Sometimes the wheel and/or hub and nuts are damaged and need to be replaced. Sometimes the wheel comes off, with everything that involves. Every instance of this I've seen or dealt with had recently had the wheel refitted. It got so bad with our turn-of the-century LT vans shedding NSR wheels that we had new wheel bolts fitted to the entire fleet and wouldn't accept vans back that the dealer hadn't roadtested and retightened the bolts. Yes, we paid extra for this. I knew tyre fitters who had experienced this on their own Sprinters(same van with MB engines). The trade joke at the time was to bet on what would fall off first: the NSR wheel or the side door.


The smal 1/2" windy guns and wimpy air lines get a bad press; they're less effective than a strong heave on a long breaker bar, but they are faster to use. The tyre company I use only use guns to undo wheel nuts, they nip them up by hand and tighten fully with a torque wrench, which is the correct procedure.

[Lizzie Zoom]

I won't copy LZs essay but I disagree with pretty much all of it.

Firstly, having been in a car that was written off when a rear wheel came off at speed, I would suggest that you heed the advice to get the bolts retorqued at the suggested interval.

If it were a bs money making scheme it wouldn't be enough to make an HGV VOR until it's been done. 

I'm with you on every point.


Loose wheels IS a common problem. Sometimes tightening the nuts is enough. Sometimes the wheel and/or hub and nuts are damaged and need to be replaced. Sometimes the wheel comes off, with everything that involves. Every instance of this I've seen or dealt with had recently had the wheel refitted. It got so bad with our turn-of the-century LT vans shedding NSR wheels that we had new wheel bolts fitted to the entire fleet and wouldn't accept vans back that the dealer hadn't roadtested and retightened the bolts. Yes, we paid extra for this. I knew tyre fitters who had experienced this on their own Sprinters(same van with MB engines). The trade joke at the time was to bet on what would fall off first: the NSR wheel or the side door.


The smal 1/2" windy guns and wimpy air lines get a bad press; they're less effective than a strong heave on a long breaker bar, but they are faster to use. The tyre company I use only use guns to undo wheel nuts, they nip them up by hand and tighten fully with a torque wrench, which is the correct procedure.

But what you is describing is not a problem in checking the wheel nuts after 50 miles of driving after a tyre change, but an inherent problem with a certain type of wheel/bolts on certain vehicles. You are also describing a failure in the quality of wheel fitting or the use of air guns.

I was specifically suggesting that the Tyre fitter Varche dealt with may have been negligent and that the "after 50'mile disclaimer" is only there to inhibit any claims of malpractice.

Of course wheels have come off vehicles, but as you are implying it is not due to the customer not checking the bolts after a tyre change but faults in a) Parts and materials b) Improper or negliant use of tools used in tightening the bolts.

I suggest we are describing between us two separate areas of legal liability

What Varche decides to do though depends on his willingness to start legal action IF the VW dealer does not accept responsibity for what transpired and explains why. By the sounds of it Varche just wants it all to go away and is fed up of the initial incident and what has followed on.  I don't blame him!

Sometimes, don't we know, one thing happening with your car leads on to something else.

[Sir Tigger KC]

Might not be one but will have a look.  Good suggestion.

Ah yes you've probably just got a can of goo.....       

If that's the case I'm sure you'll find something suitable in somewhere like Castorama cheaply enough. 

Giving the bolts a tap with the screw in towing eye will identify the loose ones as they will sound different. 

He'll still need something to tighten up a loose nut or bolt though. 

[Rods2]

Great to see that it is nothing worse than replacement parts as it could have been so much worse.

I generally after assembling anything that involves precise alignment, vibration or heat cycling re-torque the bolts after a week of use as it is not unusual for them to need retightening. Likewise, I check tyre pressures regularly & also increase pressures if I know I will be carrying heavy loads. I know somebody that survived an underinflated disintegrating front tyre at 70mph on a motorway & they described it as being a passenger of fate as they had no control over the outcome, but they fortunately got away with it.

I was discussing safely earlier on Twitter, where as a 16yo, the first week of my electronics apprenticeship at RAE Farnborough was all safety lectures & films about keeping yourself safe & also those around you. Having this dinned it at a young age has made me always instinctively & often unconsciously think about safety as part of planning anything. Using a bench grinder, when sharpening tools, drills etc was an immediate sacking offence if you were caught not wearing safety glasses, where you had your own pair & there was always a pair also hanging from the grinder. The habit still survives as my garage bench grinder always has a pair hung on them, which being next to my pillar drill I always use them with that as well.

A good tip is that if you are working with anything sharp keep you hands behind the sharp end. I can't use kitchen knives without a chopping board, so my hands & fingers are always behind the blade,  unlike my first wife who I would forewarn that I had sharpened the blunt kitchen knives but I could also guarantee she would later be making a dash for our first-aid cupboard for the plasters.

[Sir Tigger KC]

I'm sure that when Varche is struggling in the pissing rain to tighten his nuts with a pair of tweezers on the side of a Spanish motorway somewhere near San Sebastian tomorrow, he'll remember your wife's cut finger and will wonder what the message was!