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[Lizzie Zoom]

I think that too much is expected from them regarding figures , it's an awful situation for everyone who is dealing with any of it government key ,workers etc it will make absolutely no difference dwelling on what is on death certificates, what is needed is plain old commonsense and people pulling together to get through the present situation & hopefully finding a vaccine to combat this virus, which unfortunately I think is some time away.

Disagree.  We need to know why Covid-19 is being listed as the cause of death when it wasn't.  Why is this happening? 

Simply because it's easier for officials?  or is it an instruction from the top to boost death figures so they can justify the lock down?   

.   

Why would they need to justify the lockdown ? As I said in my post commonsense..

Exactly.  Why would our Government want to inflate the Covid 19 death figures when they are,and will be in the endless future, be judged on their performance in handling this pandemic that has affected most of the World?

Don't see it myself

[Sir Tigger KC]

I think that too much is expected from them regarding figures , it's an awful situation for everyone who is dealing with any of it government key ,workers etc it will make absolutely no difference dwelling on what is on death certificates, what is needed is plain old commonsense and people pulling together to get through the present situation & hopefully finding a vaccine to combat this virus, which unfortunately I think is some time away.

Disagree.  We need to know why Covid-19 is being listed as the cause of death when it wasn't.  Why is this happening? 

Simply because it's easier for officials?  or is it an instruction from the top to boost death figures so they can justify the lock down?   

.   

Why would they need to justify the lockdown ? As I said in my post commonsense..

Exactly.  Why would our Government want to inflate the Covid 19 death figures when they are,and will be in the endless future, be judged on their performance in handling this pandemic that has affected most of the World?

Don't see it myself

It's a good question, but if they are, why?    The only thing that I can think of is the lockdown hasn't made much difference, so they inflate death figures to justify the economic carnage! 

It's important that people query and question, rather than complacently doing as they're told, and that's what living in a democracy is all about! 

[Rangie]

I think that too much is expected from them regarding figures , it's an awful situation for everyone who is dealing with any of it government key ,workers etc it will make absolutely no difference dwelling on what is on death certificates, what is needed is plain old commonsense and people pulling together to get through the present situation & hopefully finding a vaccine to combat this virus, which unfortunately I think is some time away.

Disagree.  We need to know why Covid-19 is being listed as the cause of death when it wasn't.  Why is this happening? 

Simply because it's easier for officials?  or is it an instruction from the top to boost death figures so they can justify the lock down?   

.   

Why would they need to justify the lockdown ? As I said in my post commonsense..

Exactly.  Why would our Government want to inflate the Covid 19 death figures when they are,and will be in the endless future, be judged on their performance in handling this pandemic that has affected most of the World?

Don't see it myself

. 

No neither do I Lizzie, people criticise & comment whatever decision is made these are ordinary human beings dealing with an "invisible enemy" yes people  will lose jobs businesses will cease trading  in the end all of us will be affected one way or another, regarding the lockdown it's sensible in my opinion but if anyone wants to ignore it it's their decision ultimately it depends how much you value life, yours & others.

[Sir Tigger KC]

I think that too much is expected from them regarding figures , it's an awful situation for everyone who is dealing with any of it government key ,workers etc it will make absolutely no difference dwelling on what is on death certificates, what is needed is plain old commonsense and people pulling together to get through the present situation & hopefully finding a vaccine to combat this virus, which unfortunately I think is some time away.

Disagree.  We need to know why Covid-19 is being listed as the cause of death when it wasn't.  Why is this happening? 

Simply because it's easier for officials?  or is it an instruction from the top to boost death figures so they can justify the lock down?   

.   

Why would they need to justify the lockdown ? As I said in my post commonsense..

Exactly.  Why would our Government want to inflate the Covid 19 death figures when they are,and will be in the endless future, be judged on their performance in handling this pandemic that has affected most of the World?

Don't see it myself

. 

No neither do I Lizzie, people criticise & comment whatever decision is made these are ordinary human beings dealing with an "invisible enemy" yes people  will lose jobs businesses will cease trading  in the end all of us will be affected one way or another, regarding the lockdown it's sensible in my opinion but if anyone wants to ignore it it's their decision ultimately it depends how much you value life, yours & others.

I'm not saying people should ignore the lockdown.... 

[Doctor Gollum]

The question isn't a democratic one per se, but lock down and its impact has raised some interesting issues across the board, not least how much we take for granted in terms of civil liberties and 'normal' way of life.

It's easy to get pissed off with the disruption, but the reality is that globally we weren't ready for such an event, either on a national or personal level.

I think that this is perhaps the point the stripey, bouncy cider drinker was making...

[Sir Tigger KC]

The question isn't a democratic one per se, but lock down and its impact has raised some interesting issues across the board, not least how much we take for granted in terms of civil liberties and 'normal' way of life.

It's easy to get pissed off with the disruption, but the reality is that globally we weren't ready for such an event, either on a national or personal level.

I think that this is perhaps the point the stripey, bouncy cider drinker was making...

 

Nope.  My query was simply about whether the figures are reliable or not, as I'd seen suggestions that people's cause of death on their DC was Covid-19 when it wasn't, and they hadn't even been tested for it!

And if this is true, why is this happening?  Is it wide spread?  A few isolated cases? 

Simple really. 

Someone said the other day (maybe here  ), that if you drop down dead with a heart attack and cough on the way down, they'll put you down as a corona virus death. 

[Doctor Gollum]

Well there's that

If you dropped from a heart attack, then that would be the correct cause of death. What caused you to have a heart attack would be secondary if there were a reason to investigate it such as being otherwise young, fit, healthy etc

Batflu deaths would/should be recorded as such if you turned up with nowt else wrong with you expect Batflu and succumbed to it after a brief holiday in hospital...

[dave the builder]

Well there's that

If you dropped from a heart attack, then that would be the correct cause of death. What caused you to have a heart attack would be secondary if there were a reason to investigate it such as being otherwise young, fit, healthy etc

Batflu deaths would/should be recorded as such if you turned up with nowt else wrong with you expect Batflu and succumbed to it after a brief holiday in hospital...

people tend to die from lack of oxygen to the brain

so that should be on all death certificates then 

[Doctor Gollum]

That is the result of the body not supplying oxygen etc via the blood stream, the cause of the non supply is what's what

[dave the builder]

That is the result of the body not supplying oxygen etc via the blood stream, the cause of the non supply is what's what

chicken  egg     

[Lizzie Zoom]

I think that too much is expected from them regarding figures , it's an awful situation for everyone who is dealing with any of it government key ,workers etc it will make absolutely no difference dwelling on what is on death certificates, what is needed is plain old commonsense and people pulling together to get through the present situation & hopefully finding a vaccine to combat this virus, which unfortunately I think is some time away.

Disagree.  We need to know why Covid-19 is being listed as the cause of death when it wasn't.  Why is this happening? 

Simply because it's easier for officials?  or is it an instruction from the top to boost death figures so they can justify the lock down?   

.   

Why would they need to justify the lockdown ? As I said in my post commonsense..

Exactly.  Why would our Government want to inflate the Covid 19 death figures when they are,and will be in the endless future, be judged on their performance in handling this pandemic that has affected most of the World?

Don't see it myself

. 

No neither do I Lizzie, people criticise & comment whatever decision is made these are ordinary human beings dealing with an "invisible enemy" yes people  will lose jobs businesses will cease trading  in the end all of us will be affected one way or another, regarding the lockdown it's sensible in my opinion but if anyone wants to ignore it it's their decision ultimately it depends how much you value life, yours & others.

Agreed

It is very easy for those without responsibility for a nation to be wise after the event and sound as though they know how the leaders should act and what they should do, along with when. Of course, those without responsibilities can just walk away from their vocals and not take on any sense of consequence.

Anyone of us who has been responsible to shareholders and a board of directors for a mult-million pound business employing 1,000’s of staff knows how that feels when it comes to making decisions that will affect everything you have under your control, including people’s livelihoods.  We can just imagine what it is like to be responsible for a nation under threat from an enemy that cannot be seen; at least the likes of Churchill could see the enemy!

But no, you will always get the armchair critics who think they know it all, spout off all kinds of ‘solutions’, but can then forget it all as they go to bed, which I certainly could never do, let alone our PM being able to do that with all he has on his plate!

 

[Entwood]

I think that too much is expected from them regarding figures , it's an awful situation for everyone who is dealing with any of it government key ,workers etc it will make absolutely no difference dwelling on what is on death certificates, what is needed is plain old commonsense and people pulling together to get through the present situation & hopefully finding a vaccine to combat this virus, which unfortunately I think is some time away.

Disagree.  We need to know why Covid-19 is being listed as the cause of death when it wasn't.  Why is this happening? 

Simply because it's easier for officials?  or is it an instruction from the top to boost death figures so they can justify the lock down?   

.   

Why would they need to justify the lockdown ? As I said in my post commonsense..

Exactly.  Why would our Government want to inflate the Covid 19 death figures when they are,and will be in the endless future, be judged on their performance in handling this pandemic that has affected most of the World?

Don't see it myself

. 

No neither do I Lizzie, people criticise & comment whatever decision is made these are ordinary human beings dealing with an "invisible enemy" yes people  will lose jobs businesses will cease trading  in the end all of us will be affected one way or another, regarding the lockdown it's sensible in my opinion but if anyone wants to ignore it it's their decision ultimately it depends how much you value life, yours & others.

Agreed

It is very easy for those without responsibility for a nation to be wise after the event and sound as though they know how the leaders should act and what they should do, along with when. Of course, those without responsibilities can just walk away from their vocals and not take on any sense of consequence.

Anyone of us who has been responsible to shareholders and a board of directors for a mult-million pound business employing 1,000’s of staff knows how that feels when it comes to making decisions that will affect everything you have under your control, including people’s livelihoods.  We can just imagine what it is like to be responsible for a nation under threat from an enemy that cannot be seen; at least the likes of Churchill could see the enemy!

But no, you will always get the armchair critics who think they know it all, spout off all kinds of ‘solutions’, but can then forget it all as they go to bed, which I certainly could never do, let alone our PM being able to do that with all he has on his plate!

 

You mean the so called "opposition" and "main stream media"   Who ALWAYS know afterwards exactly what "should" have been done  .... ??

2 months ago - testing not needed ... 1 month ago - 100,000 tests a day - impossible......   today - figures must be lies ...

the truth .. it matters not as long as they are mashing their gums ....

[MikeDundee]

forget about fake figures, what should be happening is identifying why people are still contracting the virus given we are all in lockdown, are new cases from people working or people in lockdown. The figures are coming down certainly in terms of number of deaths and beginning to flatten out, but the number of cases is not and they are not flattening out yet, despite the fancy graphs you see on BBC news and elsewhere.

The number of deaths reported by BBC on 26/04/20 was 21,092 on the following day it was reported at 25,402, something amiss there 20% increase, when the average from the week before was 4% to 2% by end of the week. Yes I have been tracking the figures on a daily basis since the outbreak and those in my local area, and have my own fancy graphs - LOL!!!

[Lizzie Zoom]

I think that too much is expected from them regarding figures , it's an awful situation for everyone who is dealing with any of it government key ,workers etc it will make absolutely no difference dwelling on what is on death certificates, what is needed is plain old commonsense and people pulling together to get through the present situation & hopefully finding a vaccine to combat this virus, which unfortunately I think is some time away.

Disagree.  We need to know why Covid-19 is being listed as the cause of death when it wasn't.  Why is this happening? 

Simply because it's easier for officials?  or is it an instruction from the top to boost death figures so they can justify the lock down?   

.   

Why would they need to justify the lockdown ? As I said in my post commonsense..

Exactly.  Why would our Government want to inflate the Covid 19 death figures when they are,and will be in the endless future, be judged on their performance in handling this pandemic that has affected most of the World?

Don't see it myself

. 

No neither do I Lizzie, people criticise & comment whatever decision is made these are ordinary human beings dealing with an "invisible enemy" yes people  will lose jobs businesses will cease trading  in the end all of us will be affected one way or another, regarding the lockdown it's sensible in my opinion but if anyone wants to ignore it it's their decision ultimately it depends how much you value life, yours & others.

Agreed

It is very easy for those without responsibility for a nation to be wise after the event and sound as though they know how the leaders should act and what they should do, along with when. Of course, those without responsibilities can just walk away from their vocals and not take on any sense of consequence.

Anyone of us who has been responsible to shareholders and a board of directors for a mult-million pound business employing 1,000’s of staff knows how that feels when it comes to making decisions that will affect everything you have under your control, including people’s livelihoods.  We can just imagine what it is like to be responsible for a nation under threat from an enemy that cannot be seen; at least the likes of Churchill could see the enemy!

But no, you will always get the armchair critics who think they know it all, spout off all kinds of ‘solutions’, but can then forget it all as they go to bed, which I certainly could never do, let alone our PM being able to do that with all he has on his plate!

 

You mean the so called "opposition" and "main stream media"   Who ALWAYS know afterwards exactly what "should" have been done  .... ??

2 months ago - testing not needed ... 1 month ago - 100,000 tests a day - impossible......   today - figures must be lies ...

the truth .. it matters not as long as they are mashing their gums ....

Yes, and selling newsprint / media space or whatever it is in these modern times!!

[Lizzie Zoom]

forget about fake figures, what should be happening is identifying why people are still contracting the virus given we are all in lockdown, are new cases from people working or people in lockdown. The figures are coming down certainly in terms of number of deaths and beginning to flatten out, but the number of cases is not and they are not flattening out yet, despite the fancy graphs you see on BBC news and elsewhere.

The number of deaths reported by BBC on 26/04/20 was 21,092 on the following day it was reported at 25,402, something amiss there 20% increase, when the average from the week before was 4% to 2% by end of the week. Yes I have been tracking the figures on a daily basis since the outbreak and those in my local area, and have my own fancy graphs - LOL!!!

I think Mike you will find that was down to an adjustment being made for care home and community Covid deaths, in addition to hospital fatalities.  The figures are therefore, hopefully, NEARER the truthful situation.

As for deaths despite the lockdown;  that, in my mind, is more down to people still at 'essential' work and, more importantly, the stupid amoungst us who think the non-household mixing rules along with social distancing do not apply to them.  I still see it everyday!