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Author Topic: Is the problem my EGR Valve? or something else?  (Read 6890 times)

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firstomega

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Is the problem my EGR Valve? or something else?
« on: 28 June 2020, 13:53:38 »

I have a Vauxhall Omega 2.2 DTI CDX year 2002 Saloon (or could be 1999 as the first reg on logbook says april 2002 but the original reg starts with a V so could be 1999 showroom then first reg in 2002 private plates?).
Anyway, I hope you guys can help me please?
The symptoms: loss of power when driving/ going uphill, EML comes on and off, revs counter drops to zero for a few seconds but still drives, then comes back on just like EML going on and off, sometimes engine cuts out completely like a stall (usually at the worst place on the road :( ), leave it switched off for a few minutes then restart and all okay till next time some kms down the road. Seems to drive much better when cooler weather but when hot weather (30C or over for example) it is much much worse. When I stop if it has been playing up then sometimes white/blueish smoke coming out of the exhaust. Do I need to change my EGR valve? if yes, which one is it as I see many models of EGR valve on car parts sites for my car. How can I know which one to order please?
Please forgive my maybe amateurish description as I am not a knowledgeable mechanic but the local garage wants to charge me 2000 euros to fix it! (maybe they see a woman and assume stuff? or maybe, as I am in France, they see an English woman which is even worse!).... So I thought the best thing is to come and ask you guys as you have always been so helpful and knowledgeable in the past - help please!!!! I love my Omega!
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firstomega

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Re: Is the problem my EGR Valve? or something else?
« Reply #1 on: 28 June 2020, 16:30:11 »

I have been searching all day for this fault.  Now on the forum I find it may be the crank sensor and also how to replace/fix it!
Found here:
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=99451.0
and how to fix it here:
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=90640.msg1155585#msg1155585
All seems to be correct as the symptoms I had before starting 2 years ago were EML suddenly and loss of power. I was staying at a friend's house so her mechanic came and said he fixed it, charged me 75 euros, had not fixed it. So I got back home 90kms and my partner next day put his hand in blindly (where the mechanic had told me the fault lay) and fiddled with what he thinks is the crank sensor cable. Anyhow his blind fiddling with the cable fixed it for a good long while. Then it started to play up again finally leading to the problems described above in first post above here.
Local garage gave me the following codes:
P1335, P1125, P1631, P0725, P0400.
Local garage then sent me to a diesel specialist who wanted to charge me 58 euros for the computer code check, and a further 81 euros per hour till it was fixed. Diesel specialist said it could  take several days till it was fixed and could not give me a quote as he may need to order parts and see if it fixed it or not, and if not keep ordering parts till it was fixed. Hence 2000 euros bill plus possible.
I have since reading all this on the forum found the crankshaft sensor to buy online (27 euros plus 11 euros delivery charges coming from UK to France) and using the description of replacement here: http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=90640.msg1155585#msg1155585
can try to fix it (a royal we - my partner will have to try lol..).
But this description where to find the crankshaft sensor etc....will this be good for my Omega 2.2 DTI CDX year 2002 (or 1999 as explained above)?
Dont have and can't find a manual for this car - if could then my partner would have looked for himself to find the issue.
Hoping you guys can advise me?
Does my EGR valve also need replacing?
Thank you all for reading. I love my Omega!
 
« Last Edit: 28 June 2020, 16:38:47 by firstomega »
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Is the problem my EGR Valve? or something else?
« Reply #2 on: 28 June 2020, 16:40:14 »

Early Vectra C diesel manual will cover your engine.  :y

Your car is almost certainly a 2002. With the new regulations it is possible to have VO as the first two letters followed by 02/03/04/05/06/07/08/09 etc as the numbers for March-August registrations.

Also, it could be a sensor fault or a loom fault or both, but that guide should see you right as long as you are prepared that the sensor alone may not cure it :y
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dave the builder

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Re: Is the problem my EGR Valve? or something else?
« Reply #3 on: 28 June 2020, 16:47:54 »

It's not uncommon for the EGR and intake to get very clogged with soot on these diesels 
i'd remove and inspect the EGR valve and check the intake
is the EGR electric or vac type ?
early EGR is vacuum controlled ,so could just be a vac leak
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firstomega

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Re: Is the problem my EGR Valve? or something else?
« Reply #4 on: 29 June 2020, 13:21:40 »

Doctor Gollum:  Thank you so much for your kind reply. Yes the original registration plate was V002 - how did you know?!!! :). Any idea please where I can get hold of an early Vectra C manual? If it is the loom as well, do you mean by the loom all the wiring that connects into the engine block? How on earth could I find which wire is playing up in that case? Worried!!!

dave the builder : Thanking you too for your kind reply. I am sorry but I have no idea whether my EGR is electric or vac type.  I have asked a friendly English mechanic about 3 weeks ago but as yet have had no reply from him. How can I find out? If I wanted or needed to change the EGR then I would need to know this to get the correct model. I do know that about 2 years ago the friendly English mechanic put the car on his diagnostic computer (not a very sophisticated one maybe), the fault came back as a vacuum leak. Does that help me to find out? Why would there be a leak? Would that be a hole in the EGR or a rubber perished maybe?
I only have one car (my omega which I love) and in the middle of countryside here in France. No one here to help me (except you guys :).  So, how difficult is it to remove the EGR and then to at least have a look, hopefully try to clean it up, and then replace it - as I can't be stuck without a car and no transport.  Are there any descriptions and maybe with photos on here on how to do this on my car please? Or can you explain please?
Local garage is friendly but no use as telling me they need to change the electric diesel pump and 2000 euros please and diesel specialist wants me to leave an open cheque. So I have to sort this myself - well my partner really who has some ideas and will do the actual mechanic stuff - but I type quicker than him :).
Thanking you both dave the builder and Doctor Gollum
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Is the problem my EGR Valve? or something else?
« Reply #5 on: 29 June 2020, 13:31:09 »

Haynes manual via ebay.

Re the wiring, you suggested that a previous fix was caused by jiggling the wires.

Identifying the wiring is easy... It's the wires attached to the plug to the sensor. If any damage/cracked insulation is apparent, then that can be dealt with in due course.  :y
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firstomega

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Re: Is the problem my EGR Valve? or something else?
« Reply #6 on: 29 June 2020, 15:48:36 »

Doctor Gollum, Thank you for your reply. Will check out Ebay for the Haynes Manual for Vectra C.
I have located a new Bosch crank sensor for 31 euros. So will replace that unit. The crank sensor currently in car is covered in oil. So I cant see much. I believe the oil is coming from the oil filtre. So I will change the sensor, hopefully it will make the car behave better, then change the oil and the oil filter.  What do you think? Does all that sound correct to you? Can the oil on the sensor stop it from working properly or is that daft? Please let me know what you think.
Also, please may I ask? Can you explain to me how the crank sensor works? I have no idea apart from it is a cable with a three-holed plug that plugs in (that is the wire, the crank sensor cable, that he fiddled with before and it cured it for a long but temporary fix). Would love to understand how it works and causes the EML to come on causing loss of power and stall the engine and also cause the rev counter to misfunction..... Could you, or anyone else, please explain that to me?
Thank you Doctor Gollum, really appreciate your help. Loving my Omega...
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Entwood

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Re: Is the problem my EGR Valve? or something else?
« Reply #7 on: 29 June 2020, 16:05:42 »

DG will probably explain it better .. but think of the crank sensor (and the cam sensor) being like an old fashioned distributer.... between the two they tell the electronic ignition EXACTLY where the piston and the valves are so that the spark occurs EXACTLY at the right time to give best power, fuel economy and lowest emissions.

If the signal from either is interrupted or poor, the "brains" of the system .. the ECU, will recognise the error and illuminate the EML to let you know.. the los of power, stalling, etc, is because the spark is either at the wrong time or not there !!

In the simplest terms, the system comprises toothed wheels inside the engine that turn and magnetically induce a signal into coils in the sensors. These "pulses" can be measured and counted to give RPM, and the moment of their occurrence gives the "timing" signal.

HTH a little !!!
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Is the problem my EGR Valve? or something else?
« Reply #8 on: 29 June 2020, 16:20:33 »

That's about the size of it, although the car in question is diseasal ;)
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Entwood

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Re: Is the problem my EGR Valve? or something else?
« Reply #9 on: 29 June 2020, 16:27:28 »

That's about the size of it, although the car in question is diseasal ;)

Ahhh ... then for "spark" substitute "fuel injection" !!!!  :)
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Re: Is the problem my EGR Valve? or something else?
« Reply #10 on: 29 June 2020, 16:41:38 »

That's about the size of it, although the car in question is diseasal ;)

Ahhh ... then for "spark" substitute "fuel injection" !!!!  :)
Not on mechanical injection, but otherwise just like that ;)
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dave the builder

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Re: Is the problem my EGR Valve? or something else?
« Reply #11 on: 29 June 2020, 21:18:13 »



dave the builder : Thanking you too for your kind reply. I am sorry but I have no idea whether my EGR is electric or vac type.  I have asked a friendly English mechanic about 3 weeks ago but as yet have had no reply from him. How can I find out? If I wanted or needed to change the EGR then I would need to know this to get the correct model. I do know that about 2 years ago the friendly English mechanic put the car on his diagnostic computer (not a very sophisticated one maybe), the fault came back as a vacuum leak. Does that help me to find out? Why would there be a leak? Would that be a hole in the EGR or a rubber perished maybe?
I only have one car (my omega which I love) and in the middle of countryside here in France. No one here to help me (except you guys :).  So, how difficult is it to remove the EGR and then to at least have a look, hopefully try to clean it up, and then replace it - as I can't be stuck without a car and no transport.  Are there any descriptions and maybe with photos on here on how to do this on my car please? Or can you explain please?

As DG has suggested, If you get a haynes manual for the diesel engine  ;) also you could look on youtube for videos abput cleaning the EGR and intake,
example video clicky

I imagine that because you have EGR fault codes the EGR and intake is due a clean and check all the vac hoses at the same time  :)

this would be in addition to looking at the crank sensor and wiring as suggested by DG

clogged intake and EGR would show as lack of power and poor acceleration etc
a bit like pulling the choke out on an warmed up old petrol engine,(because the soot is effectively choking the diesel engines air intake )


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firstomega

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Re: Is the problem my EGR Valve? or something else?
« Reply #12 on: 01 July 2020, 17:46:32 »

Thank you everyone for all your very kind replies and assistance. Please accept my apologies for the delay in my reply... (had other problems to deal with called life :).
Entwood:  thank you for your description of how the crank sensor works. My partner read your explanation, as did I, but even so my partner understood it (I didn't :) ) and so, in turn, explained it to me. It all makes sense now and why car is exhibiting such symptoms. It is good to not only know how to fix it but also to understand it. I am learning loads thank you as is my partner.
dave the builder:  Thank you for your help and your video on cleaning the EGR valve. Both my partner and I have watched it. My partner is saying that our car, Omega B 2.2 DTI CDX 2002, is slightly more complicated than the one in the video the Vectra C. Is our engine the same as the Vectra C? Because on ours we have air-con pipes which we would need to remove (as well as some other pipes which partner says he doesn't know what they are). We cannot see our EGR clearly so are not sure which model EGR we have but assume it is a vacuum one?  Would you or anyone know which model engine we have please? Would the VIN number help? I can post that here (is that allowed on the forum?). Is it easier for us to swop the EGR for another one rather than clean it? We were told by a mechanic (who would charge us! so he has a vested interest) that we should NOT touch the EGR (again he quoted thousands of pounds job etc...) as we could completely mess up the engine!
Last but not least thank you ever so much Doctor Gollum for all your help, advice and involvement with this.... will be so pleased once we have managed to sort it. 
I have located the crank sensor and ordered it - 31 euros Bosch. Cannot order a replacement EGR till I am sure which one it is or whether that is daft and should simply clean it.  Mechanic said if it is playing up then better to swop for a new one as it means that the EGR is faulty.....
Really grateful to be able to turn to you guys here on this forum for help and opinion! Thank you all!
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VXL V6

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Re: Is the problem my EGR Valve? or something else?
« Reply #13 on: 01 July 2020, 18:01:39 »

The EGR on a 2.2DTi is under the black plastic cover, you need to remove this by removing the four fixings, no need to remove the aircon pipe.

The EGR is held in with two bolts (Probably Torx, I can't remember as it's been a while!), you need to pull the vacuum pipe off, remove the bolts and lift the EGR off, there are two styles, one with a black plastic top, one with a metal top, both functionally the same.

Cleaning best done with carb / fuel system cleaner.

Ultimately the inlet will probably need cleaning at which point you'll find the flimsy swirl flaps are either stuck, damaged or missing.

Oh and be careful of looking at Vectra C versions of the 2.2DTi as it's a completely different EGR setup on the vast majority, a closer setup is the Vectra B 2.0DTi. The Omega version is far simpler - an ebay search of 'Omega DTi EGR' will list many of them. Decent brand ones will be over £100 but there are many options.
« Last Edit: 01 July 2020, 18:17:29 by VXL V6 »
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Re: Is the problem my EGR Valve? or something else?
« Reply #14 on: 01 July 2020, 18:52:15 »

Just a thought 'firstomega'.

Do you have Breakdown Cover?  A friendly Breakdown Mechanic (equivalent to the AA, RAC here) should have the diagnostics equipment to better test the relevant sensors and give you an almost definitive answer as to what is at fault.
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