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Author Topic: Caravan Mass  (Read 1321 times)

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Broomies Mate

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Re: Caravan Mass
« Reply #60 on: 27 March 2021, 21:22:54 »


If you're using heavier trailers and delivering anything heavier than an old Mini or Sprite, then the Omega is only suitable, and safe, to deliver the empty trailer.

Rubbish.
I can tow far heavier than an 'old Mini' or 'Sprite' My car trailer is a twin axle, with double 16' wheel beds (rather than the heavier flat bed) which are positioned between the axles rather than above them (as on a heavier flat bed) so the centre of gravity is low. It has an unladen weight of 740kg, and my 1970s Triumphs have an unladen weight of 23cwt (1170kg), so I am slightly above the stated permissible towing weight of 1850kg when towing those.
I accept that I am probably over on the towball nose weight, but the laden trailer sits well; only slightly lower at the nose than the tail, but this is preferable for stability purposes. The outfit is very stable when laden.
The 85% suggested towing weight by the CC is only a a guide and was suggested way back when vehicles towing cabilities were a lot less - 100% is quite acceptable with more modern vehicles.
The Omega is one of the best tow cars I've had; however the Range Rover is the absolute king of towing vehicles I've had experience of,  but some 4WD SUV's have laughable towing capabilities....

Johnny.....  I'm afraid you are arguing black is black, but stating it is white.

DG is correct.

REGARDLESS of whether you, I or indeed anyone else thinks its 'perfectly ok'...... it's not in the eyes of the law.
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Re: Caravan Mass
« Reply #61 on: 27 March 2021, 22:11:00 »

I reckon the OP must have a right headache  ;D
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johnnydog

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Re: Caravan Mass
« Reply #62 on: 27 March 2021, 22:15:06 »

The VW Amorak, Mitsubishi Warrior, Ford Ranger and Nissan Hilux Invincible are all supposed to be up there with the best (commercial) towing vehicles currently.
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Raeturbo

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Re: Caravan Mass
« Reply #63 on: 27 March 2021, 22:15:17 »

Probably thinking.... Jesus Christ!!! Why the fuŁ did I f@(king ask 😂😂🤣🤣
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Raeturbo

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Re: Caravan Mass
« Reply #64 on: 27 March 2021, 22:19:37 »

Anyway what are we going to tow that container ship with😂 they will have to float it out I reckon...  dam it up in front as best as possible and get a shitload of water in there although it seems impossible  : anybody got any ideas?
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johnnydog

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Re: Caravan Mass
« Reply #65 on: 27 March 2021, 22:35:44 »


If you're using heavier trailers and delivering anything heavier than an old Mini or Sprite, then the Omega is only suitable, and safe, to deliver the empty trailer.

Rubbish.
I can tow far heavier than an 'old Mini' or 'Sprite' My car trailer is a twin axle, with double 16' wheel beds (rather than the heavier flat bed) which are positioned between the axles rather than above them (as on a heavier flat bed) so the centre of gravity is low. It has an unladen weight of 740kg, and my 1970s Triumphs have an unladen weight of 23cwt (1170kg), so I am slightly above the stated permissible towing weight of 1850kg when towing those.
I accept that I am probably over on the towball nose weight, but the laden trailer sits well; only slightly lower at the nose than the tail, but this is preferable for stability purposes. The outfit is very stable when laden.
The 85% suggested towing weight by the CC is only a a guide and was suggested way back when vehicles towing cabilities were a lot less - 100% is quite acceptable with more modern vehicles.
The Omega is one of the best tow cars I've had; however the Range Rover is the absolute king of towing vehicles I've had experience of,  but some 4WD SUV's have laughable towing capabilities....

Johnny.....  I'm afraid you are arguing black is black, but stating it is white.

DG is correct.

REGARDLESS of whether you, I or indeed anyone else thinks its 'perfectly ok'...... it's not in the eyes of the law.

Yes I know I know.....but I guess even DG has done 33 mph in a 30 zone :y. ... I could have jiggled my quoted figures to make my argument a bit more watertight and be just within the the figures, but there we go. Irrespective of the figures, the Omega is still quite capable of towing way above its quoted weights. Although Officer Dibble may not see it quite like that, the outfit can't appear grossly mismatched otherwise I would have been stopped years ago.
I used to tow the same trailer in the early 00's with 2.0 16v Cavaliers - the tyre scrabble from the front tyres with a laden trailer actually was the main reason I moved to the heavier, more powerful rear wheel drive Omega in 2004 and I've never looked back....
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johnnydog

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Re: Caravan Mass
« Reply #66 on: 27 March 2021, 22:36:32 »

Anyway what are we going to tow that container ship with😂 they will have to float it out I reckon...  dam it up in front as best as possible and get a shitload of water in there although it seems impossible  : anybody got any ideas?

Better not suggest an Omega then...... :D
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Nick W

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Re: Caravan Mass
« Reply #67 on: 27 March 2021, 22:45:17 »

Anyway what are we going to tow that container ship with😂 they will have to float it out I reckon...  dam it up in front as best as possible and get a shitload of water in there although it seems impossible  : anybody got any ideas?

Better not suggest an Omega then...... :D


why not, the leaks from a couple of them would probably be enough
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Re: Caravan Mass
« Reply #68 on: 27 March 2021, 23:04:47 »

Not to mention the air con☹️
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Re: Caravan Mass
« Reply #69 on: 27 March 2021, 23:36:26 »


If you're using heavier trailers and delivering anything heavier than an old Mini or Sprite, then the Omega is only suitable, and safe, to deliver the empty trailer.

Rubbish.
I can tow far heavier than an 'old Mini' or 'Sprite' My car trailer is a twin axle, with double 16' wheel beds (rather than the heavier flat bed) which are positioned between the axles rather than above them (as on a heavier flat bed) so the centre of gravity is low. It has an unladen weight of 740kg, and my 1970s Triumphs have an unladen weight of 23cwt (1170kg), so I am slightly above the stated permissible towing weight of 1850kg when towing those.
I accept that I am probably over on the towball nose weight, but the laden trailer sits well; only slightly lower at the nose than the tail, but this is preferable for stability purposes. The outfit is very stable when laden.
The 85% suggested towing weight by the CC is only a a guide and was suggested way back when vehicles towing cabilities were a lot less - 100% is quite acceptable with more modern vehicles.
The Omega is one of the best tow cars I've had; however the Range Rover is the absolute king of towing vehicles I've had experience of,  but some 4WD SUV's have laughable towing capabilities....

Johnny.....  I'm afraid you are arguing black is black, but stating it is white.

DG is correct.

REGARDLESS of whether you, I or indeed anyone else thinks its 'perfectly ok'...... it's not in the eyes of the law.

Yes I know I know.....but I guess even DG has done 33 mph in a 30 zone :y. ... I could have jiggled my quoted figures to make my argument a bit more watertight and be just within the the figures, but there we go. Irrespective of the figures, the Omega is still quite capable of towing way above its quoted weights. Although Officer Dibble may not see it quite like that, the outfit can't appear grossly mismatched otherwise I would have been stopped years ago.
I used to tow the same trailer in the early 00's with 2.0 16v Cavaliers - the tyre scrabble from the front tyres with a laden trailer actually was the main reason I moved to the heavier, more powerful rear wheel drive Omega in 2004 and I've never looked back....
Never being previously stopped will hold absolutely zero weight if you have an accident in the process. And doesn't provide any justification for continuing.

If the Omega was designed to tow more, then it would have been plated accordingly. And that's the end of it.

When fatigue eventually cracks the structure, I will say 'I told you so'.

33 in a 30 is an entirely different subject as that's a legal question alone and not a technical one (most every car on the road was designed to safely travel at highway speeds).
« Last Edit: 27 March 2021, 23:44:02 by Doctor Gollum »
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johnnydog

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Re: Caravan Mass
« Reply #70 on: 28 March 2021, 02:12:14 »

So I am towing an outfit that is sometimes over weight by the body weight of an average teenager. Or a few gallons of fuel in the tank.  I also think on the odd occasion I have towed heavier, but generally lighter. I think I will still sleep tonight.
If this is enough to fail the towing equipment on my Omega, then it would have occurred years ago, as would 'structural cracks'. If the figures quoted were so finely critical, with no leeway, the majority of people towing who very rarely check the nose weight of their outfit, ought to have also experienced fatigue and failure in their towing equipment and mounting points in their vehicles. Towing equipment is obviously designed to withstand heavier weights then the limits published - there has to be a figure, but if the equipment failed several kgs over that figure, then you would see stricken vehicles on the hard shoulder every holiday period.
I know you love preaching the rights and wrongs in the world but sometimes you have to look at it from an everyday persons point of view.... 
I actually could have been exaggerating the figures I quoted to keep this topic 'interesting' and provoke the reaction I got, or maybe they were more or less correct.
I do know that when the Police used our local weighbridge to weigh suspected overweight vehicles, there was a either a 5% or 10% margin of 'error' allowed (not sure which now).
Not that that justifies any misdemeanours, I know....
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johnnydog

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Re: Caravan Mass
« Reply #71 on: 28 March 2021, 02:36:33 »


If you're using heavier trailers and delivering anything heavier than an old Mini or Sprite, then the Omega is only suitable, and safe, to deliver the empty trailer.

Rubbish.
I can tow far heavier than an 'old Mini' or 'Sprite' My car trailer is a twin axle, with double 16' wheel beds (rather than the heavier flat bed) which are positioned between the axles rather than above them (as on a heavier flat bed) so the centre of gravity is low. It has an unladen weight of 740kg, and my 1970s Triumphs have an unladen weight of 23cwt (1170kg), so I am slightly above the stated permissible towing weight of 1850kg when towing those.
I accept that I am probably over on the towball nose weight, but the laden trailer sits well; only slightly lower at the nose than the tail, but this is preferable for stability purposes. The outfit is very stable when laden.
The 85% suggested towing weight by the CC is only a a guide and was suggested way back when vehicles towing cabilities were a lot less - 100% is quite acceptable with more modern vehicles.
The Omega is one of the best tow cars I've had; however the Range Rover is the absolute king of towing vehicles I've had experience of,  but some 4WD SUV's have laughable towing capabilities....

Johnny.....  I'm afraid you are arguing black is black, but stating it is white.

DG is correct.

REGARDLESS of whether you, I or indeed anyone else thinks its 'perfectly ok'...... it's not in the eyes of the law.

Yes I know I know.....but I guess even DG has done 33 mph in a 30 zone :y. ... I could have jiggled my quoted figures to make my argument a bit more watertight and be just within the the figures, but there we go. Irrespective of the figures, the Omega is still quite capable of towing way above its quoted weights. Although Officer Dibble may not see it quite like that, the outfit can't appear grossly mismatched otherwise I would have been stopped years ago.
I used to tow the same trailer in the early 00's with 2.0 16v Cavaliers - the tyre scrabble from the front tyres with a laden trailer actually was the main reason I moved to the heavier, more powerful rear wheel drive Omega in 2004 and I've never looked back....
33 in a 30 is an entirely different subject as that's a legal question alone and not a technical one (most every car on the road was designed to safely travel at highway speeds).

This topic had moved into the legalities of towing / weights so no, it's not technical now... :P
« Last Edit: 28 March 2021, 02:38:26 by johnnydog »
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Re: Caravan Mass
« Reply #72 on: 28 March 2021, 02:46:55 »

Doesn't alter the fact that you are wrong... and deliberately ignorant of the consequences.

My licence allows me to tow anything (CE), but it doesn't permit exceeding the weight limits shown on the vehicle or trailer, and for good reason. Perhaps yours is a special licence that exempts you from physics ;D
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Re: Caravan Mass
« Reply #73 on: 28 March 2021, 07:30:33 »

I reckon the OP must have a right headache  ;D


Some folk seem to make hard work of simple calculations & facts & figures that are readily available even if you can't be arsed to read the vehicle handbook properly.
« Last Edit: 28 March 2021, 07:39:42 by Rangie »
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Re: Caravan Mass
« Reply #74 on: 28 March 2021, 10:09:25 »

What is technically the difference of 2.5/2.6 or 3.2/2.6 as both 2.5 and 3.2 have higher allowable mass of a mobile home with brakes (left column), brakes might be same and 2.6 has more power than 2.5. Difficult to understand. Would like to increase in my 2.6 it to 1850kg.


Assuming that the OP was hoping to tow a larger caravan I would personally stick with the kerb weight figures as mentioned previously.
The maximum towing weights shown above for trailers are derived from the vehicles ability to pull away from a dead start on an incline, of a gradient of which I can't remember offhand.  ::)
As GrahamK stated, different models have different maximum towing weights, even though the vehicle may weigh potentially the same.
So, a 3.2 Omega gets a higher maximum towing weight than the smaller V6's purely because it is more capable of hauling arse from a standstill on a gradient. Outfit stability obviously comes in to it so they set that figure according. I'm surprised that the 3.0/3.2 aren't paired but then the 3.2 is far superior.  ;)
So, in reality, the 2.5/2.6 may be as stable on the flat as a 3.2 but the 3.2 gets the higher maximum towing figure based on its gradient start from standstill when towing.  :y  Hope that helps to explain the difference in figures.  :y

Incidentally, I was following a Landcruiser Amazon a few years back when all of a sudden his twin axle decided to give it a savage arse kicking (tail wagging the dog). He was lucky, as was I when it happened to me, so it pays not to become too complacent. It's an experience that I have no desire to repeat, caused by a mixture of being passed at speed by a high sided van, my own speed creeping up and towing 100% ratio. Having towed bangers/hotrods on Brian James/Ivor Williams trailers in my younger days, large four wheel drives aren't exempt from snaking, but they are certainly in a better position to hold it all straight in the first place.  :y

If anyone has seen the YouTube video where a twin axle caravan drags a Renault back down a hill you will realise why weights are so important.  ;D
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