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Author Topic: Barn find starts but then stops  (Read 2224 times)

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arjc1

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Barn find starts but then stops
« on: 25 April 2022, 09:10:51 »

My father's 45k mile 2003 2.6 V6 Omega has sat in its dry garage for the past 6 or so years. It has been turned over from time to time. I've finally got round to dealing with it and hoping to get it through an MOT, use it for a few weeks where we'll have a car out of action and then move it on.

Surprisingly - it started in first turn of the key and reversed happily out if the garage stalling once. On third start it ran fine for a couple of minutes. Then on restart it went back to running fine for 10-15 seconds and then spluttering to a stop.

Yesterday I pumped all the old fuel out and replaced it with fresh petrol but the same symptoms persist. When the car starts the display shows steady c. 0.5 gal/h consumption and as it starts to falter this rises to 1.2-1.4 gal/h. So - wonder if it's over fueling rather than starving.

I've only restarted the car about 3 times after changing the fuel - I don't know how big a reservoir of fuel sits behind the fuel inlet on the engine.

I'm no expert on working on cars - rather short of time - but would appreciate any guidance here on realtively straightforward stuff to try - if only to save a tow to a garage!
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addy

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Re: Barn find starts but then stops
« Reply #1 on: 25 April 2022, 09:31:17 »

Possibly a dirt fuel filter. Maybe fuel pump, should be able to hear it running, if I remember correct there is a filter on it aswell? If you have access to a fuel pressure gauge, see what is happening at the test point on the fuel rail. If you can remove spark plug covers and check condition of plugs.

This would be my first points of call. Someone with alot more knowledge, will hopefully give you some more help. 
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Drives 1995 2.0ltr CD Estate.  2002 2.6 CD saloon

Doctor Gollum

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Re: Barn find starts but then stops
« Reply #2 on: 25 April 2022, 09:33:11 »

It could be any number of things.

Have a search in the FAQ/Maintenance Guides sections for the Pedal Trick, and see what the car thinks is wrong with it.

You don't say if the car is an estate or a saloon, but make sure that it has at least four gallons of fuel in it and is sitting on level ground.

The fuel consumption gauge is about as accurate as sticking a wet finger in the air to see if it is night time. That said, they do run rich until warmed up (think of it as an electronic choke) in order to heat the cats more quickly, so there is a possibility that shutting it off before it is upto temperature with a settled idle that you have flooded it.  :y
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arjc1

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Re: Barn find starts but then stops
« Reply #3 on: 25 April 2022, 10:05:31 »

Thanks. It is a saloon and has about 3 gallons of fresh fuel in it and is on level ground. The pump seems to run OK - we used it to empty the old fuel out. It took about 10 minutes to shift 50 litres of old fuel. In terms of flooding - maybe - but it starts immediately on first key turn every time and runs smoothly for about 15 seconds before spluttering to a halt.
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amba

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Re: Barn find starts but then stops
« Reply #4 on: 25 April 2022, 13:35:53 »

Bet filter is gummed up and for a few quid worth changing as 6years worth of old fuel have been sat in it
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Nick W

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Re: Barn find starts but then stops
« Reply #5 on: 25 April 2022, 17:26:51 »

Bet filter is gummed up and for a few quid worth changing as 6years worth of old fuel have been sat in it


Buy two, so when you realise that the pump is also knackered from sitting in old fuel, you can change it again.
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omegod

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Re: Barn find starts but then stops
« Reply #6 on: 27 April 2022, 16:30:13 »

Pump is likely gummed up and weak, I rescued one recently that had been standing for a similar time and everything inside the tank was destroyed by rancid toxic fuel, the rubber pipes has basically dissolved into plasticine. Pop the pump cover off and have a look
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arjc1

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Re: Barn find starts but then stops
« Reply #7 on: 27 April 2022, 20:59:55 »

OK. Thank you folks for all your helpful suggestions. Car is not here with me - so can't react and test immediately, but mate who has it right now put a basic diagnostics tool on it which appeared to connect OK and showed no error codes. I did suggest the pedal trick - but assume nothing showing.

Will try and pop the fuel tank cover and look - slight pain as it has tow-bar strengthening over the top of one corner - but can be done and will pick up new fuel filter.

Since the car starts immediately and runs fine every time for about 10-15 seconds and then stops - possibly with extra fuel being delivered - could this be the fuel pressure regulator? Or is it that the system gets pressurised with enough fuel to start but then can't feed the engine enough even to carry on idling? But does that chime with a pump that happily delivers several litres / minute when emptying the tank to atmospheric pressure. 

Do I need to get a pressure gauge to diagnose this with confidence?

Sorry - I can't kill the the logical electronic engineer fault finding approach in me - especially when I can't just try something immediately.
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Re: Barn find starts but then stops
« Reply #8 on: 27 April 2022, 21:17:44 »

There are two fuel relays in the engine bay fuse box. Both purple.

One feeds the injectors, tother the fuel pump.

Pump relay primes the fuel rail at ignition on, and then switches off until the ecu sees a reliable cam and crank sensor signal. At which point it runs continuously as long as the engine is running.

Tother feeds the injectors. No crank signal no fuel.

It may be possible to fit a pump to a temporary tank feeding into the fuel rail (with suitable fittings) in order to rule out the tank end.  :-\
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Nick W

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Re: Barn find starts but then stops
« Reply #9 on: 27 April 2022, 21:41:03 »

Sorry - I can't kill the the logical electronic engineer fault finding approach in me - especially when I can't just try something immediately.


Don't apologise for wanting to do this properly rather than just chucking parts at it.


I suspect that the fuel pump is weak, and can't keep up with the engines needs once it has started. It's like that because it has been submerged in shitty fuel for too long. A pressure gauge would be the correct way to diagnose this thoroughly, but a visual inspection of the pump would be my next move if I didn't have the gauge.


The only fuel fault I've fixed by replacing the filter were leaks ::)
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Raeturbo

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Re: Barn find starts but then stops
« Reply #10 on: 28 April 2022, 12:43:29 »

If you want to be sure it is a fuel issue (which we assume it is) see if it will continue running when you squirt some easy start in it as it is approaching cutting out.
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Re: Barn find starts but then stops
« Reply #11 on: 28 April 2022, 13:24:03 »

If you want to be sure it is a fuel issue (which we assume it is) see if it will continue running when you squirt some easy start in it as it is approaching cutting out.
Not recommended for the engine's longevity...
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Raeturbo

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Re: Barn find starts but then stops
« Reply #12 on: 28 April 2022, 15:27:40 »

Of course, but just enough to prove a point
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Re: Barn find starts but then stops
« Reply #13 on: 28 April 2022, 19:40:06 »

If you want to be sure it is a fuel issue (which we assume it is) see if it will continue running when you squirt some easy start in it as it is approaching cutting out.


 Don't need easy shit,, fill a spray bottle with petrol, does same thing..
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Raeturbo

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Re: Barn find starts but then stops
« Reply #14 on: 29 April 2022, 00:03:49 »

Agreed👍
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