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[Golfbuddy]

Chapter 11 is fine in the States and may not look that serious.

In the UK brach, the administrators are in and struggling to find the money to pay the wages at the end of this week. 4,000 people  

From the Beeb:

PWC told a news conference in London that it is unclear whether Lehman's UK staff will get paid the $75m (£42m) that they are owed in wages this month.

"When we took over this morning, there was no cash in the company," said Tony Lomas from PWC.

"We still don't know what the position is - we will tell staff as soon as we know if we can, or if it is appropriate to pay staff on Friday."

I quite agree that this is bad news for the UK staff of this bank. What I feel so strongly about is the deliberate misrepresentation of the facts during what are such uncertain times. Consumer confidence is vital if we are not to descend into a much more serious situation than we already are in. The average man in the street sees and hears these headlines and takes them at face value.

I believe that this is one of the most irresponsible pieces of reporting that I have seen in a long time, produced by people with a vested interest in telling bad news.

It was, after all, in the Mail !!!!!  However, Chapter 11 or not, the basis is much the same as being bankrupt --- debts outweigh assets and the company is being run by administrators. They will act to get the best return for creditors --- can't see much difference really --- still down the pan (as opposed to happily trading without a care in the world)

Sorry Count, I don't think that's quite right. Lehman Bros in London has appointed PWC to oversee the closure of the London office. It stands to reason that a company would not expect the local management to undertake such a massive task. The office is closing because the company needs to make big cut backs and is doing badly.

Lehman Bros in America will continue to be run by the existing management unless the company decides to make changes at that level. As with any organisation, if you cannot meet your liabilities and all of your creditors call their debts in at once then you are technically bankrupt. Chapter 11 protects a company from this scenario and allows it to trade its way out of the predicament it is in. Chapter 11 protection can, and often does, last for many years.

As I said above, I don't know all of the intricacies of this but it's still a long way from the garbage I've heard on the news since I got home from work.

[HolyCount]

Chapter 11 is fine in the States and may not look that serious.

In the UK brach, the administrators are in and struggling to find the money to pay the wages at the end of this week. 4,000 people  

From the Beeb:

PWC told a news conference in London that it is unclear whether Lehman's UK staff will get paid the $75m (£42m) that they are owed in wages this month.

"When we took over this morning, there was no cash in the company," said Tony Lomas from PWC.

"We still don't know what the position is - we will tell staff as soon as we know if we can, or if it is appropriate to pay staff on Friday."

I quite agree that this is bad news for the UK staff of this bank. What I feel so strongly about is the deliberate misrepresentation of the facts during what are such uncertain times. Consumer confidence is vital if we are not to descend into a much more serious situation than we already are in. The average man in the street sees and hears these headlines and takes them at face value.

I believe that this is one of the most irresponsible pieces of reporting that I have seen in a long time, produced by people with a vested interest in telling bad news.

It was, after all, in the Mail !!!!!  However, Chapter 11 or not, the basis is much the same as being bankrupt --- debts outweigh assets and the company is being run by administrators. They will act to get the best return for creditors --- can't see much difference really --- still down the pan (as opposed to happily trading without a care in the world)

Sorry Count, I don't think that's quite right. Lehman Bros in London has appointed PWC to oversee the closure of the London office. It stands to reason that a company would not expect the local management to undertake such a massive task. The office is closing because the company needs to make big cut backs and is doing badly.

Lehman Bros in America will continue to be run by the existing management unless the company decides to make changes at that level. As with any organisation, if you cannot meet your liabilities and all of your creditors call their debts in at once then you are technically bankrupt. Chapter 11 protects a company from this scenario and allows it to trade its way out of the predicament it is in. Chapter 11 protection can, and often does, last for many years.

As I said above, I don't know all of the intricacies of this but it's still a long way from the garbage I've heard on the news since I got home from work.

Granted, it's a long way from the sensationalist garbage, however, it is far from good news. If the "financial experts" are failing financially there is trouble afoot. Admittedly the media frenzy will make matters appear worse than they actually are --- however, this often becomes a self-fullfilling prophecy.

And, there is no denying, for whatever reason, we ARE in the clag !!!!

BTW Golfbuddy -- I see you are from the Cornish Palantine State. My families financial wisdom is legendary for foolhardiness. Once owned half the County -- now own zilch ---- so don't listen to me  

[Martin_1962]

Markets are down about 2-5%. The worst hit in the UK is Freinds Provident, down 17.85%. (Despite HBOS leading the headlines all day).

Well done the Doomsayers . Black Monday turned out to be very slightly Gray Monday  

Got rid of an endowment with them a few years ago

[HolyCount]

Markets are down about 2-5%. The worst hit in the UK is Freinds Provident, down 17.85%. (Despite HBOS leading the headlines all day).

Well done the Doomsayers . Black Monday turned out to be very slightly Gray Monday  

Got rid of an endowment with them a few years ago

Who? Friends Provident or Doomsayers    Be a great name for a bank these days !!!!!

[Golfbuddy]

Chapter 11 is fine in the States and may not look that serious.

In the UK brach, the administrators are in and struggling to find the money to pay the wages at the end of this week. 4,000 people  

From the Beeb:

PWC told a news conference in London that it is unclear whether Lehman's UK staff will get paid the $75m (£42m) that they are owed in wages this month.

"When we took over this morning, there was no cash in the company," said Tony Lomas from PWC.

"We still don't know what the position is - we will tell staff as soon as we know if we can, or if it is appropriate to pay staff on Friday."

I quite agree that this is bad news for the UK staff of this bank. What I feel so strongly about is the deliberate misrepresentation of the facts during what are such uncertain times. Consumer confidence is vital if we are not to descend into a much more serious situation than we already are in. The average man in the street sees and hears these headlines and takes them at face value.

I believe that this is one of the most irresponsible pieces of reporting that I have seen in a long time, produced by people with a vested interest in telling bad news.

It was, after all, in the Mail !!!!!  However, Chapter 11 or not, the basis is much the same as being bankrupt --- debts outweigh assets and the company is being run by administrators. They will act to get the best return for creditors --- can't see much difference really --- still down the pan (as opposed to happily trading without a care in the world)

Sorry Count, I don't think that's quite right. Lehman Bros in London has appointed PWC to oversee the closure of the London office. It stands to reason that a company would not expect the local management to undertake such a massive task. The office is closing because the company needs to make big cut backs and is doing badly.

Lehman Bros in America will continue to be run by the existing management unless the company decides to make changes at that level. As with any organisation, if you cannot meet your liabilities and all of your creditors call their debts in at once then you are technically bankrupt. Chapter 11 protects a company from this scenario and allows it to trade its way out of the predicament it is in. Chapter 11 protection can, and often does, last for many years.

As I said above, I don't know all of the intricacies of this but it's still a long way from the garbage I've heard on the news since I got home from work.

Granted, it's a long way from the sensationalist garbage, however, it is far from good news. If the "financial experts" are failing financially there is trouble afoot. Admittedly the media frenzy will make matters appear worse than they actually are --- however, this often becomes a self-fullfilling prophecy.

And, there is no denying, for whatever reason, we ARE in the clag !!!!

BTW Golfbuddy -- I see you are from the Cornish Palantine State. My families financial wisdom is legendary for foolhardiness. Once owned half the County -- now own zilch ---- so don't listen to me  

Couldn't have put it better myself.  

My advice; go and make a totally spontaneous and pointless high value purchase. It will make you feel better and help to boost the economy. Definately a win/win

[Bandit127]

Markets are down about 2-5%. The worst hit in the UK is Freinds Provident, down 17.85%. (Despite HBOS leading the headlines all day).

Well done the Doomsayers . Black Monday turned out to be very slightly Gray Monday  

Got rid of an endowment with them a few years ago

Who? Friends Provident or Doomsayers    Be a great name for a bank these days !!!!!

Or a more honest name for a leading tabloid...  

[HolyCount]

Markets are down about 2-5%. The worst hit in the UK is Freinds Provident, down 17.85%. (Despite HBOS leading the headlines all day).

Well done the Doomsayers . Black Monday turned out to be very slightly Gray Monday  

Got rid of an endowment with them a few years ago

Who? Friends Provident or Doomsayers    Be a great name for a bank these days !!!!!

Or a more honest name for a leading tabloid...  

VERY true  

[Ken T]

Chapter 11 is fine in the States and may not look that serious.

In the UK brach, the administrators are in and struggling to find the money to pay the wages at the end of this week. 4,000 people  

From the Beeb:

PWC told a news conference in London that it is unclear whether Lehman's UK staff will get paid the $75m (£42m) that they are owed in wages this month.

"When we took over this morning, there was no cash in the company," said Tony Lomas from PWC.

"We still don't know what the position is - we will tell staff as soon as we know if we can, or if it is appropriate to pay staff on Friday."

A quick statistic, 4000 people and £42M per month, blimey thats over £10000 each per MONTH. Nice work if you can get it.  

I recon we'll talk ourselves into a recession, if we try hard enough. If there's enough doom and gloom in the press then people stop spending, then hey presto a recession. Mind you it might stop this vast consumption of consumer goods, and people throwing away perfectly good TV's etc, just because they ain't the latest hi def picture or whatever.

Ken

[HolyCount]

Chapter 11 is fine in the States and may not look that serious.

In the UK brach, the administrators are in and struggling to find the money to pay the wages at the end of this week. 4,000 people  

From the Beeb:

PWC told a news conference in London that it is unclear whether Lehman's UK staff will get paid the $75m (£42m) that they are owed in wages this month.

"When we took over this morning, there was no cash in the company," said Tony Lomas from PWC.

"We still don't know what the position is - we will tell staff as soon as we know if we can, or if it is appropriate to pay staff on Friday."

A quick statistic, 4000 people and £42M per month, blimey thats over £10000 each per MONTH. Nice work if you can get it.  

I recon we'll talk ourselves into a recession, if we try hard enough. If there's enough doom and gloom in the press then people stop spending, then hey presto a recession. Mind you it might stop this vast consumption of consumer goods, and people throwing away perfectly good TV's etc, just because they ain't the latest hi def picture or whatever.

Ken

There you go -- you have uncovered the answer --- it's a global government plot to halt the greenhouse effect !!!!

[Martin_1962]

Markets are down about 2-5%. The worst hit in the UK is Freinds Provident, down 17.85%. (Despite HBOS leading the headlines all day).

Well done the Doomsayers . Black Monday turned out to be very slightly Gray Monday  

Got rid of an endowment with them a few years ago

Who? Friends Provident or Doomsayers    Be a great name for a bank these days !!!!!

Friends Provident - got rid of both now - waste of time, repayment is cheaper

[Bandit127]

Chapter 11 is fine in the States and may not look that serious.

In the UK brach, the administrators are in and struggling to find the money to pay the wages at the end of this week. 4,000 people  

From the Beeb:

PWC told a news conference in London that it is unclear whether Lehman's UK staff will get paid the $75m (£42m) that they are owed in wages this month.

"When we took over this morning, there was no cash in the company," said Tony Lomas from PWC.

"We still don't know what the position is - we will tell staff as soon as we know if we can, or if it is appropriate to pay staff on Friday."

A quick statistic, 4000 people and £42M per month, blimey thats over £10000 each per MONTH. Nice work if you can get it.  

I recon we'll talk ourselves into a recession, if we try hard enough. If there's enough doom and gloom in the press then people stop spending, then hey presto a recession. Mind you it might stop this vast consumption of consumer goods, and people throwing away perfectly good TV's etc, just because they ain't the latest hi def picture or whatever.

Ken

Good effort with the stats, but let's 'hone' it a bit...

3m for the 5 top cheeses = £600k a month each. That's 1m left for the rest of the staff (3995)  = £2,500 a month. A bit more realistic.

It's actually more complex and less extreme than that - but a bit more accurate than the original estimate - but I am taking Mr Pareto in vain.

[Ken T]

Chapter 11 is fine in the States and may not look that serious.

In the UK brach, the administrators are in and struggling to find the money to pay the wages at the end of this week. 4,000 people  

From the Beeb:

PWC told a news conference in London that it is unclear whether Lehman's UK staff will get paid the $75m (£42m) that they are owed in wages this month.

"When we took over this morning, there was no cash in the company," said Tony Lomas from PWC.

"We still don't know what the position is - we will tell staff as soon as we know if we can, or if it is appropriate to pay staff on Friday."

A quick statistic, 4000 people and £42M per month, blimey thats over £10000 each per MONTH. Nice work if you can get it.  

I recon we'll talk ourselves into a recession, if we try hard enough. If there's enough doom and gloom in the press then people stop spending, then hey presto a recession. Mind you it might stop this vast consumption of consumer goods, and people throwing away perfectly good TV's etc, just because they ain't the latest hi def picture or whatever.

Ken

There you go -- you have uncovered the answer --- it's a global government plot to halt the greenhouse effect !!!!

Now, wait a  minute, thats crediting them with intellegence, you can't go doing that.  

I find it hard to believe that nobody bothered to look in to these marvelous investments that everybody was pouring so much dosh into. I mean a responsible financial controller would have said "oh look the banks are making a lot of dosh. Where's it coming from?". And when he found out, he should have knocked some heads together, then not now. The old maxim about shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted, well it seems to happen time after time, yet we never learn.

Never mind the laptop repair business is going from strength to strength, so I'm all right Jack !.

Ken

[Jay w]

whichever way it is looked at there are some tough times ahead and some will suffer more than others

as i said on another post, i don't listen to the news anymore, it is all doom and gloom, it is fair to say that this is the news of the day, but as has been talked about here, it would be nice if they got the facts right instead of scaremongering....but that seems to be what journalism is about these days  

i am no different from a lot of other people, i have my house and a few small debts, and still i wonder if we will make it through, one thing i can be sure of, the money market will be a very different place when all of this has calmed down....at least for a while....

maybe it is a good thing to have this hardship, it gives people a chance to realise that the excesses we have created over the last 10 years or so........

[albitz]

Lehmans gone bust (or as good as) merrill  lynch only afloat because Bank of America bought themj ust before they went the same way,huge American insuranse corporation teetering on the brink,fanny mae and freddie mac (with many trillions worth of U.S. mortages between them)only saved by the government. I dont think the media have talked this one up,the U.S. economy is in very deep $h1t and the rest of us are gonna suffer .

[Kevin Wood]

maybe it is a good thing to have this hardship, it gives people a chance to realise that the excesses we have created over the last 10 years or so........

It's not as if it wasn't clearly coming. It's obvious that the economy has been fuelled by unsustainable levels of consumer, business and government debt for several years. I can understand consumers "living for today" and getting into trouble. What amazes me is that the banks have left themselves so exposed to it as well.

Kevin