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[Kevin Wood]

Zetecs are pretty cheap and commonplace. Plenty of Mondeos always being scrapped! Just have a look on Ebay for a start. Middle of the road weight wise (about 120 kg) and go well if you junk the factory induction system, which you will if you want a bonnet on your car. 165 BHP from a 2.0 on a set of old bike throttle bodies (more on the later black top engine which had a better head) before you make any internal modifications. Pretty much bomb proof.

VX C20XE as above but a little more power, and a little more ultimate tuning potential. Finding good ones is getting less easy now though.

4AGE is a nice engine. Compact, light, unbreakable, revs to the heavens.

The Ford Duratec I4 is starting to look a very nice choice now, and starting to become available 2nd hand. Considerably lighter than a Zetec (90kg - alloy block), more cubes than a 4AGE. Good and growing support in the aftermarket tuning arena. Mate of mine has a breathed-on 2.3 in a Caterham. 260BHP. Very, very nice package, although it didn't come cheap.  2.0 Ultimately has more tuning potential than the 2.3 due to shorter stroke but 2.3 gives more bang for the buck as standard.

Even our old friend the Rover K series isn't a bad choice. Lightest of the bunch and the head gasket issues that plagued production variants aren't an issue if you build them right. I have many mates who run these in Caterhams, including some with a reliable 240 BHP @ 8500 RPM.

VW/Audi 20v Turbo.... Keep thinking about it. One day...

Unfortunately, if you want more than 4 cylinders engines get much less optimal IMHO. Forget the Ford Essex / Cologne / Cosworth BOA. Totally outclassed these days and a real boat anchor.

Rover V8 - plenty of tuning support but it is seriously long in the tooth and will tuning to get significantly better performance than one of the above 4 pots. Not too heavy for a V8, but still much heavier than any of the 4 pots and this will affect the handling of the car. Noise comes as standard though.

X30XE, as said, compact for a V6 due to the narrow Vee. Not especially light. Probably similar weight to a Rover V8 but much more grunt as standard. Plenty of knowledge here, of course, but not popular in  the wider kit car world, which makes it attractive in a way IMHO. Ultimate tuning potential? :-/

The Ford Duratec V6 / Jag AJ-6 might be interesting. All alloy so potentially lighter but 60 degree Vee angle and wide cylinder heads might make it a tight fit.

Personally, in a Seven inspired kit I think a tuned / turbocharged 4 pot is the best compromise but each to his own. Others would be within their rights to argue for a big V8 or a bike engine, which all have their own attractions.

Fuel injection of some kind is a no-brainer these days, and required to get through SVA anyway if you have a post-Aug '95 engine. Bolting on a pair of Webers looks like the simple option but they are eye wateringly expensive these days, and finding guys who can tune them well is not easy.

I had them on my Westfield to start with. Went to a couple of tuners and still wasn't happy, despite a much lightened wallet. Built myself a wideband lambda sensor and started to tune them myself. Got fed up with buying sets of jets, emulsion tubes, chokes, etc.

Put a fuel injection system on it and now I could make changes with no more than a laptop it took me an afternoon and about 30 miles in public roads to get it running better than it ever had on carbs. Range on a tankfull increased from 100-120 miles to 160-170 overnight. I learnt a lot during that process too.

Stelvio is the target, just don't know which year

 

Kevin

[hoody]

http://www.uksaabs.eu/UKS/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=33824


Saab engines from the 9000 range(B234)are in good supply and can produce up to 500bhp with standard internals,a full pressure 9000 2.3 can be had for a couple of hundred quid now and standard produce 200bhp or if you get an aero engined one 225bhp.Even the 2.0 as above is tunable to the point of the example above relatively cheaply

[Kevin Wood]

http://www.uksaabs.eu/UKS/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=33824


Saab engines from the 9000 range(B234)are in good supply and can produce up to 500bhp with standard internals,a full pressure 9000 2.3 can be had for a couple of hundred quid now and standard produce 200bhp or if you get an aero engined one 225bhp.Even the 2.0 as above is tunable to the point of the example above relatively cheaply

Looks nice. Saw a nice Westfield with a Volvo / Ford 5 pot turbo which looked good. Had an Elite sequential gearbox in too.

Kevin

[Ian_D]

Why would you put an Omega V6 in, given the complications, rather that just go with the Ford V6.

because vauxhall make much better engines than ford

I agree there compairing the V6's

However, I know the 2L Zetecs are pritty good engines, and if I was fitting a 4pot,  I would prob stick one of them in with a custom ECU.

To expensive and not that easy to obtain.

If I was going for a 4 pot it would probably be a Toyota 4AGE or a Z20LET

Unless you went throttle bodies etc, a custom ecu wont do much for you.

Thought you would pick a Zetec up for £100?  :-/

Dont know anything about the 4AGE, but a Z20LET would be very nice  , however thats WAY to expensive!  

Hence X30XE again....you could get a 3.0 V6 Manual for a few hundred quid which would give you gearbox, engine, engine loom, immobiliser, clutch, flywheel prop.......and probably enough other bits to flog second hand to cover the purchase cost!

Yes I was thinking that... Could even make a few quid, as its got to be worth 100quid in weight too! However my mate is now thinking about the 2.5's as finding a dirt cheap 3.0 with a manual box is not that easy!

Maybe easier to buy a 3.0 auto AND a 2.5 manual?

[Marks DTM Calib]

Why would you put an Omega V6 in, given the complications, rather that just go with the Ford V6.

because vauxhall make much better engines than ford

I agree there compairing the V6's

However, I know the 2L Zetecs are pritty good engines, and if I was fitting a 4pot,  I would prob stick one of them in with a custom ECU.

To expensive and not that easy to obtain.

If I was going for a 4 pot it would probably be a Toyota 4AGE or a Z20LET

Unless you went throttle bodies etc, a custom ecu wont do much for you.

Thought you would pick a Zetec up for £100?  :-/

Dont know anything about the 4AGE, but a Z20LET would be very nice  , however thats WAY to expensive!  

Hence X30XE again....you could get a 3.0 V6 Manual for a few hundred quid which would give you gearbox, engine, engine loom, immobiliser, clutch, flywheel prop.......and probably enough other bits to flog second hand to cover the purchase cost!

Yes I was thinking that... Could even make a few quid, as its got to be worth 100quid in weight too! However my mate is now thinking about the 2.5's as finding a dirt cheap 3.0 with a manual box is not that easy!

Maybe easier to buy a 3.0 auto AND a 2.5 manual?

Possibly.

Or a 2.5 with 3.0 cams etc to get it close to the 200bhp mark.

I note that nobody has yet come up with an alternative setup that is nearly as cheap as buying a second hand Omega!

[Kevin Wood]

Possibly.

Or a 2.5 with 3.0 cams etc to get it close to the 200bhp mark.

I note that nobody has yet come up with an alternative setup that is nearly as cheap as buying a second hand Omega!

It does certainly offer the best bang for the buck as every other option requires separate purchases for engine and gearbox, and there'll be odds and sods that you need in the process of putting them together too.

Remember: If you can find a pre-August 95 engine and prove its' age, you won't have to fit catalytic converters. Even if it's ropey and you take it out after the SVA....

Kevin

[Ian_D]

Possibly.

Or a 2.5 with 3.0 cams etc to get it close to the 200bhp mark.

I note that nobody has yet come up with an alternative setup that is nearly as cheap as buying a second hand Omega!

It does certainly offer the best bang for the buck as every other option requires separate purchases for engine and gearbox, and there'll be odds and sods that you need in the process of putting them together too.

Remember: If you can find a pre-August 95 engine and prove its' age, you won't have to fit catalytic converters. Even if it's ropey and you take it out after the SVA....

Kevin

I've got a Vectra GSi on the front that im going to break... It did cross my mind about using that engine (192bhp) but I guess a 3.0 is still better!  

Eeeeekks... Forgot all about emmisions... may have to look for an old 2.5 Cav engine then! Take it the mounts will be in the same place on them engines? c25xe is it (guess)? and then just swap sump / oil pickup over?

[Kevin Wood]

It'd be worth checking that the rules don't change when SVA is replaced. However, when I went through the process 8 years ago:

Engines before August 1995 attracted a non-cat emissions test at SVA (3.5 % / 1200ppm).

Engines after Aug '95 or where age was not proven attracted a cat test at sva (0.5%/200ppm IIRC).

For a while, at subsequent MOTs you could ditch the cat even if it was required at SVA because you were tested according to the plate and the MOT tester had no idea what emissions were tested at SVA. Q plates were subject to visible smoke test only and an age related plate was no problem if it was pre-92ish. In  fact I believe technically if you could prove it's amateur built it would be tested for visible smoke only.

Things have changed now and the emissions limits are stored with the car's V5 information in the database. MOT stations connect to that and the "correct" emissions rules are automatically applied. So, the emissions information determined according to engine age at SVA remain with the vehicle for life.

I would have to check the current MOT manual to see if the exemption for Q plates / amateur built still exists but certainly with age related plates you're likely to end up having to fit cats for at least one day a year. I think it's also going to be harder to argue your point when the MOT computer applies the limits stored in the database (It's linked to the emissions tester).

However, it sounds like you're heading for a Q plate, which has many advantages TBH. I'm glad I put mine on a Q.

Regardless of all of this, if you change the engine post-SVA it makes no difference, so what it has at SVA determines the rules thereafter.

So, finding a ropey C25XE that'll scrape through the non cat test is probably a winner, assuming the goalposts haven't moved.

Kevin

[Ian_D]

It'd be worth checking that the rules don't change when SVA is replaced. However, when I went through the process 8 years ago:

Engines before August 1995 attracted a non-cat emissions test at SVA (3.5 % / 1200ppm).

Engines after Aug '95 or where age was not proven attracted a cat test at sva (0.5%/200ppm IIRC).

For a while, at subsequent MOTs you could ditch the cat even if it was required at SVA because you were tested according to the plate and the MOT tester had no idea what emissions were tested at SVA. Q plates were subject to visible smoke test only and an age related plate was no problem if it was pre-92ish. In  fact I believe technically if you could prove it's amateur built it would be tested for visible smoke only.

Things have changed now and the emissions limits are stored with the car's V5 information in the database. MOT stations connect to that and the "correct" emissions rules are automatically applied. So, the emissions information determined according to engine age at SVA remain with the vehicle for life.

I would have to check the current MOT manual to see if the exemption for Q plates / amateur built still exists but certainly with age related plates you're likely to end up having to fit cats for at least one day a year. I think it's also going to be harder to argue your point when the MOT computer applies the limits stored in the database (It's linked to the emissions tester).

However, it sounds like you're heading for a Q plate, which has many advantages TBH. I'm glad I put mine on a Q.

Regardless of all of this, if you change the engine post-SVA it makes no difference, so what it has at SVA determines the rules thereafter.

So, finding a ropey C25XE that'll scrape through the non cat test is probably a winner, assuming the goalposts haven't moved.

Kevin

Ah right, Thanks for all the info! Im VERY new to all this! Will need to read up on it!

[Kevin Wood]

Bit of MOT emissions info here: http://nw.rhocar.org/MOT%20emission%20testing.htm

I notice the link to the SVA inspection manual they used to publish now returns a 404 Not Found. (PM sent).

Kevin

[Ian_D]

Bit of MOT emissions info here: http://nw.rhocar.org/MOT%20emission%20testing.htm

I notice the link to the SVA inspection manual they used to publish now returns a 404 Not Found. (PM sent).

Kevin

PM Replied!  

[Ian_D]

http://www.uksaabs.eu/UKS/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=33824


Saab engines from the 9000 range(B234)are in good supply and can produce up to 500bhp with standard internals,a full pressure 9000 2.3 can be had for a couple of hundred quid now and standard produce 200bhp or if you get an aero engined one 225bhp.Even the 2.0 as above is tunable to the point of the example above relatively cheaply

Hmm.. My boss has a Saab 93 (2.0T)...  Wonder what he would say if I borrow the engine  

[Marks DTM Calib]

http://www.uksaabs.eu/UKS/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=33824


Saab engines from the 9000 range(B234)are in good supply and can produce up to 500bhp with standard internals,a full pressure 9000 2.3 can be had for a couple of hundred quid now and standard produce 200bhp or if you get an aero engined one 225bhp.Even the 2.0 as above is tunable to the point of the example above relatively cheaply

Hmm.. My boss has a Saab 93 (2.0T)...  Wonder what he would say if I borrow the engine  

And where prey tell are you going to find a rear wheel drive gearbox for that  
 

[hoody]

the car in my original post has the ford type 9 box fitted




http://www.uksaabs.eu/UKS/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=29405

[Ian_D]

http://www.uksaabs.eu/UKS/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=33824


Saab engines from the 9000 range(B234)are in good supply and can produce up to 500bhp with standard internals,a full pressure 9000 2.3 can be had for a couple of hundred quid now and standard produce 200bhp or if you get an aero engined one 225bhp.Even the 2.0 as above is tunable to the point of the example above relatively cheaply

Hmm.. My boss has a Saab 93 (2.0T)...  Wonder what he would say if I borrow the engine  

And where prey tell are you going to find a rear wheel drive gearbox for that  
 

Hahaha.. would have to stick engine in the back too! lol... wont happen!