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[Lizzie_Zoom]

any engine will have to have piston rings to create compression even 0.5mm thick still needs them !!

That is exactly what I thought, but Marks DTM did amaze me by saying they did not require them any more!

[markey mark]

got to or the fine tolerances would make it sieze !! need rings to separate piston from bore !! even though f1 engines run at silly temps still would sieze very soon  

[cem_devecioglu]

 :-?

Inspector Lizzie Zoom,  I'm totally convinced that when you give

importance to a subject nothing can stop you and you will reach the

bottom

[Lizzie_Zoom]

:-?

Inspector Lizzie Zoom,  I'm totally convinced that when you give

importance to a subject nothing can stop you and you will reach the

bottom

You are so right Cem!

In business I was nicknamed "The Terrier" as I would never let go of an issue that needed investigation! 8-) 8-) 8-)

Others called me a right "Bitch" because I was like that, but that's another story

It is a great gift to have at uni!

[cem_devecioglu]

:-?

Inspector Lizzie Zoom,  I'm totally convinced that when you give

importance to a subject nothing can stop you and you will reach the

bottom

You are so right Cem!

In business I was nicknamed "The Terrier" as I would never let go of an issue that needed investigation! 8-) 8-) 8-)

Others called me a right "Bitch" because I was like that, but that's another story

It is a great gift to have at uni!

I see you are insistent and really go deep in subjects ..Thats something vital for success

[albitz]

F1 engines do have camshafts but dont have valve springs(afaik).
Dont know anything about the piston ring issue,but at room temperature they  are "siezed" and need to be carefully pre-heated to allow the various materials to reach operating temperature before the engine can be started.
The Cosworth DFV engine which Kevin posted the picture of and propelled hundreds of GP winning cars from the late sixties to the 80,s
could be bought by teams in 1980 for around £25,000 each. Those were the days.
Edit at 20.54 - been thinking about this and struggling to work out how the hydraulic or compressed air system would open/close the valves with camshafts, confused myself now. :-/
Possibly the camshaft opens the valve and the hydraulic or air pressure closes it. :-/

[Lizzie_Zoom]

F1 engines do have camshafts but dont have valve springs(afaik).
Dont know anything about the piston ring issue,but at room temperature they  are "siezed" and need to be carefully pre-heated to allow the various materials to reach operating temperature before the engine can be started.
The Cosworth DFV engine which Kevin posted the picture of and propelled hundreds of GP winning cars from the late sixties to the 80,s
could be bought by teams in 1980 for around £25,000 each. Those were the days.
Edit at 20.54 - been thinking about this and struggling to work out how the hydraulic or compressed air system would open/close the valves with camshafts, confused myself now. :-/
Possibly the camshaft opens the valve and the hydraulic or air pressure closes it. :-/

Ok Albitz, a challege!!  Find out exactly how those cam's work as I did over the piston ring issue!

A tip for you is go through the various web sites I found.

[LaserLance]

They work of compressed air ,after a certain Rpm the valves start to get valve bounce ,its the springs comppresing , ducati got round it buy designing the "Desmodromic system" which is a bevalled gear drive system. As im not really mechanically minded im sure someone more enlightened will explain it in a better way than i can

[Ken T]

got to or the fine tolerances would make it sieze !! need rings to separate piston from bore !! even though f1 engines run at silly temps still would sieze very soon  

Although not in the same league, model Aircraft engines don't use rings, they seem to be OK for tolerance. Well, OK, perhaps the newer ones do, but the older ones, like my Merco 61, Super Tigre etc don't. Maybe the new ones might, but they managed to get the tolerances good enough. Mind you they used a fuel-oil mix, perhaps the oil was helping to seal.

Ken

[Lizzie_Zoom]

got to or the fine tolerances would make it sieze !! need rings to separate piston from bore !! even though f1 engines run at silly temps still would sieze very soon  

Although not in the same league, model Aircraft engines don't use rings, they seem to be OK for tolerance. Well, OK, perhaps the newer ones do, but the older ones, like my Merco 61, Super Tigre etc don't. Maybe the new ones might, but they managed to get the tolerances good enough. Mind you they used a fuel-oil mix, perhaps the oil was helping to seal.

Ken

Bet they don't run at a potential of 19,000 rpm or their pistons have to withstand pressure at 9,000 times gravity Ken? !

[Martin_1962]

Model aircraft engines run at high teens to low twenty thousand RPM

[Martin_1962]

THis is a model engine!

http://www.craftsmanshipmuseum.com/Tomlinson.htm

[albitz]

Done a little bit of research.(thankyou google)
The engines do have camshafts to open the valves.there is an external nitrogen tank which supplies gas to a chamber which is where the metal spring would normally be and the gas pressure forces the valve shut.
came across Frank Williams comments as posted by Lizzie regarding piston rings ,so presume they still have piston rings of some description.
They are introducing KERS (kinetic energy recycling system) next year so things will probably get much more complicated next year.
P.S. get well soon Mark Webber.

[theowletman]

When you have read all the technical bits Lizzie, put your headphones on, log in to YouTube, search for Renault F1 Engine, click the one sent in by UnholyGwar, sit back and enjoy the fruits of all those technical bits ( sorry I didn't put a link in ).

[Lizzie_Zoom]

When you have read all the technical bits Lizzie, put your headphones on, log in to YouTube, search for Renault F1 Engine, click the one sent in by UnholyGwar, sit back and enjoy the fruits of all those technical bits ( sorry I didn't put a link in ).

Thanks for that!!