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[Marks DTM Calib]

Most went STM1 and then STM16/64.....not bothering with STM4......BT dived on the back of SMA4 and SMA1/4 so have loads of STM4 in the legacy network.

I know they had a lot of STM1...

Yep....most operators do.

If you want to see lots of 2M and STM1's......go to India!

[TheBoy]

Most went STM1 and then STM16/64.....not bothering with STM4......BT dived on the back of SMA4 and SMA1/4 so have loads of STM4 in the legacy network.

I know they had a lot of STM1...

Yep....most operators do.

If you want to see lots of 2M and STM1's......go to India!

I'm sure there are nicer things to look at in India than old telco/network equip

[feeutfo]

To clarify how your line is made up - you have a dedicated pair of wires from your house to the exchange, possibly several kilometres worth.

Along the way back to the exchange, more and more pairs of wires will be in the same cable, typically up to 100 pairs of wires as it enteres the green cabinet at the side of the road, then in 200 or 400 pair cables back to exchange.  But you still have your own exclusive pair of wires all the way back to the exchange.

This pair determines your sync rate and line stability.

At the exchange, your line splits, via microfilters (in effect), voice goes to the exchange linecards, data to the DSLAM.  The DSLAM has a number of Backhauls going off via the BT ATM network back to POPs, then from these to your ISP via Centrals (normally 622Mbps), then through the ISP's network onto the internet via their transit links.

If you get a good, fast, stable sync, but poor throughput in general, this is generally down to either exchange congestion on the backhauls (which would affect multiple (but not necessarily all) ISPs), the ISPs Centrals (most likely), or the ISP's own network and onward transit links.


Very simplistic view, but should be enough info

Almost simple enough for me but not quite, sorry J, but step by step,
if the line is ours and ours alone to the exchange  then,

if sky use bt exchange and line then no improvement as said

if o2 use their own eqipment/exchange on the same site,by passing the bt exchange(as im lead to believe) but on the same dedicated line then we get an improvement?

hope so, as fast running out of other options.

[TheBoy]

To clarify how your line is made up - you have a dedicated pair of wires from your house to the exchange, possibly several kilometres worth.

Along the way back to the exchange, more and more pairs of wires will be in the same cable, typically up to 100 pairs of wires as it enteres the green cabinet at the side of the road, then in 200 or 400 pair cables back to exchange.  But you still have your own exclusive pair of wires all the way back to the exchange.

This pair determines your sync rate and line stability.

At the exchange, your line splits, via microfilters (in effect), voice goes to the exchange linecards, data to the DSLAM.  The DSLAM has a number of Backhauls going off via the BT ATM network back to POPs, then from these to your ISP via Centrals (normally 622Mbps), then through the ISP's network onto the internet via their transit links.

If you get a good, fast, stable sync, but poor throughput in general, this is generally down to either exchange congestion on the backhauls (which would affect multiple (but not necessarily all) ISPs), the ISPs Centrals (most likely), or the ISP's own network and onward transit links.


Very simplistic view, but should be enough info

Almost simple enough for me but not quite, sorry J, but step by step,
if the line is ours and ours alone to the exchange  then,

if sky use bt exchange and line then no improvement as said

if o2 use their own eqipment/exchange on the same site,by passing the bt exchange(as im lead to believe) but on the same dedicated line then we get an improvement?

hope so, as fast running out of other options.

LLU providers use their own data (or voice or both) equipment in the exchange, but use the same pair of wires to your house.

This presents advantages - as ISP owns the DSLAM, they can provide, for example, ADSL2, and there own BRAS profiles, and they have their own dedicated links back to ISP (representing significant cost savings for ISP).

This can, and sometimes does, result in better throughput, but not if the problem lies with the capabilities of the copper pair to your home. True, they can tweak BRAS profile (compromise between stability and speed), and ADSL2 can increase (and decrease) a given line's sync speed, but ultimately the differences will be minimal if its the line thats limiting. "You can't put a shine on a turd".


Solution - get the line fixed, if faulty (remember, the 2 operators, BT and Kingston Telecom, only have to provide a voice service). Or move.

[RichB]

In your current situation, the best option for speed will be Virgin.  I'm not quite sure why they put you on to a technical support line in a Virgin Media shop...?

I am with Virgin 10MB and the speed is a constant 10MB with no slow down 24 hours a day.  I have had one problem in 8 years and that was recently when they sent me a new modem for free so I could benefit from the roll out of 10MB.  I was ringing all the technical lines and getting nowhere until I rang the broadband support line (35p/min) who sorted it for me in 5 minutes.  The call charge was then refunded to my account as it was due to a fault at their end.

It sounds like you have had issues in the past but to be honest the cable service they offer has very little that can go wrong anyway in my experience.

Obviously the same can not be said for the service they offer via phone lines as Mark has mentioned, but it must be a bit more difficult when all the different companies involved pass the book from one to another all the time rather than working together to fix it!


Cheers,

Richard

[Marks DTM Calib]

In your current situation, the best option for speed will be Virgin.  I'm not quite sure why they put you on to a technical support line in a Virgin Media shop...?

I am with Virgin 10MB and the speed is a constant 10MB with no slow down 24 hours a day.  I have had one problem in 8 years and that was recently when they sent me a new modem for free so I could benefit from the roll out of 10MB.  I was ringing all the technical lines and getting nowhere until I rang the broadband support line (35p/min) who sorted it for me in 5 minutes.  The call charge was then refunded to my account as it was due to a fault at their end.

It sounds like you have had issues in the past but to be honest the cable service they offer has very little that can go wrong anyway in my experience.

Obviously the same can not be said for the service they offer via phone lines as Mark has mentioned, but it must be a bit more difficult when all the different companies involved pass the book from one to another all the time rather than working together to fix it!


Cheers,

Richard

Lol, dont kid yourself

When I had a few issues recently I made a number of calls (I have many contacts in BT and Diamond cable, now Virgin). If its an issue with BT they specificaly sit on the request before flagging it t open reach. This is done in the hope that BT notice the fault and rectify it themselves and saves the cost raising a ticket on BT and also reduces the risk of them being charged if no fault is found......ultimately, you loose out!

When I spoke to the BT guys, they were all for meeting me at trent side exchange so we could pop in and do some more digging!. In this case we decided to watch and see what happened, it took Virgin 5 days to raise a ticket on BT!

Fault was a poor patch in a Krone block following the filter block.

I am also aware of how the cable setup works.....and how much of it is handled by SMA 1.1d in the street side cabinets (max of 155M line rate).....so if your getting good through put its probably due to low subscription in your area.......in Nottingham its no good as diamond cable had 40% penetration on cable installs (highest in the UK) so its amego over subscribed service with shite throughput (hence why switching to cable was not an option)

[RichB]

In your current situation, the best option for speed will be Virgin.  I'm not quite sure why they put you on to a technical support line in a Virgin Media shop...?

I am with Virgin 10MB and the speed is a constant 10MB with no slow down 24 hours a day.  I have had one problem in 8 years and that was recently when they sent me a new modem for free so I could benefit from the roll out of 10MB.  I was ringing all the technical lines and getting nowhere until I rang the broadband support line (35p/min) who sorted it for me in 5 minutes.  The call charge was then refunded to my account as it was due to a fault at their end.

It sounds like you have had issues in the past but to be honest the cable service they offer has very little that can go wrong anyway in my experience.

Obviously the same can not be said for the service they offer via phone lines as Mark has mentioned, but it must be a bit more difficult when all the different companies involved pass the book from one to another all the time rather than working together to fix it!


Cheers,

Richard

Lol, dont kid yourself

When I had a few issues recently I made a number of calls (I have many contacts in BT and Diamond cable, now Virgin). If its an issue with BT they specificaly sit on the request before flagging it t open reach. This is done in the hope that BT notice the fault and rectify it themselves and saves the cost raising a ticket on BT and also reduces the risk of them being charged if no fault is found......ultimately, you loose out!

When I spoke to the BT guys, they were all for meeting me at trent side exchange so we could pop in and do some more digging!. In this case we decided to watch and see what happened, it took Virgin 5 days to raise a ticket on BT!

Fault was a poor patch in a Krone block following the filter block.

I am also aware of how the cable setup works.....and how much of it is handled by SMA 1.1d in the street side cabinets (max of 155M line rate).....so if your getting good through put its probably due to low subscription in your area.......in Nottingham its no good as diamond cable had 40% penetration on cable installs (highest in the UK) so its amego over subscribed service with shite throughput (hence why switching to cable was not an option)

I agree that is shocking service!  But it does show that the 5 days is due to them using another providers lines.  I wonder how many other ISP's would take the same approach on things...?

I guess its all down to experience, I guess i'm lucky that everyone down my road doesnt have 20mb connections or I might not be so lucky!

Perhaps in this situation your best bet would be to knock on a few neighbours doors and see what ISP they use and find out if anyone is getting a better connection.  That would cut out some trial and error.

[TheBoy]

I agree that is shocking service!  But it does show that the 5 days is due to them using another providers lines.  I wonder how many other ISP's would take the same approach on things...?

My Zen line (that runs the forum) had a problem a couple of months back. Called Zen, and straight away, within minutes, the fault was on the BT system.  Thats what ISPs should (and mostly do) do.

The whole NTL setup is technically inadequate, moreso with Virgin proudly announcing big number increases.

[feeutfo]

To clarify how your line is made up - you have a dedicated pair of wires from your house to the exchange, possibly several kilometres worth.

Along the way back to the exchange, more and more pairs of wires will be in the same cable, typically up to 100 pairs of wires as it enteres the green cabinet at the side of the road, then in 200 or 400 pair cables back to exchange.  But you still have your own exclusive pair of wires all the way back to the exchange.

This pair determines your sync rate and line stability.

At the exchange, your line splits, via microfilters (in effect), voice goes to the exchange linecards, data to the DSLAM.  The DSLAM has a number of Backhauls going off via the BT ATM network back to POPs, then from these to your ISP via Centrals (normally 622Mbps), then through the ISP's network onto the internet via their transit links.

If you get a good, fast, stable sync, but poor throughput in general, this is generally down to either exchange congestion on the backhauls (which would affect multiple (but not necessarily all) ISPs), the ISPs Centrals (most likely), or the ISP's own network and onward transit links.


Very simplistic view, but should be enough info

Almost simple enough for me but not quite, sorry J, but step by step,
if the line is ours and ours alone to the exchange  then,

if sky use bt exchange and line then no improvement as said

if o2 use their own eqipment/exchange on the same site,by passing the bt exchange(as im lead to believe) but on the same dedicated line then we get an improvement?

hope so, as fast running out of other options.

LLU providers use their own data (or voice or both) equipment in the exchange, but use the same pair of wires to your house.

This presents advantages - as ISP owns the DSLAM, they can provide, for example, ADSL2, and there own BRAS profiles, and they have their own dedicated links back to ISP (representing significant cost savings for ISP).

This can, and sometimes does, result in better throughput, but not if the problem lies with the capabilities of the copper pair to your home. True, they can tweak BRAS profile (compromise between stability and speed), and ADSL2 can increase (and decrease) a given line's sync speed, but ultimately the differences will be minimal if its the line thats limiting. "You can't put a shine on a turd".


Solution - get the line fixed, if faulty (remember, the 2 operators, BT and Kingston Telecom, only have to provide a voice service). Or move.

Exactly, but move where? My hope is the line to house is ok and the 02 exchange/equipment or what ever its called, will remove the bottle neck and away we go. If not the only viable option, is Virgin and i really really dont want to have to go there.  

Ok,so how do you find out where the issue lies, line or exchange? As others say, only way to find out seems to be to ask the bloody neighbours, i can see me walking up the street with a clip board at this rate.

[djdaveyp85]

I've gone for the the Virgin Media 20 Meg deal as I was sick of slow phone line speeds. I have to say it is loads better than a phone line. When I had sky 16Meg i was getting about 5500Kb/s Now I Very rarely drop below 16000Kb/S not had to call customer services yet!

[feeutfo]

I've gone for the the Virgin Media 20 Meg deal as I was sick of slow phone line speeds. I have to say it is loads better than a phone line. When I had sky 16Meg i was getting about 5500Kb/s Now I Very rarely drop below 16000Kb/S not had to call customer services yet!

Well thats exactly it for me, not much doubt it will be the premium service, the problems start when you have to communicate with them to correct an issue. As said previously, its quite a simple thing to provide, for them, and you would think quite easy to sort out, and yet they  manage to make it considerably worse for no apparent reason, and make you talk to the eastern corner of the planet and throw in a language barrier for good measure.
Muppets.

[Christian]

virgn





their customer service are not as bad as they used to be when they were telewest/NTL


thats very very close to mine  

Virgin tbh are very good and there aint much out there that matches the After service either.

[feeutfo]

given the first hand experience of the company, i dont think anyone in their right mind would present virgin to their employer as good option, it is Mrs gixer who will have to deal with them and explane why here "virtual private network" to the office is down again and she has to speak  Martin in bombay to sort it.

Thing is if 02 proves to be no better, we will have no choice but to use Virgin.

[Marks DTM Calib]

I've gone for the the Virgin Media 20 Meg deal as I was sick of slow phone line speeds. I have to say it is loads better than a phone line. When I had sky 16Meg i was getting about 5500Kb/s Now I Very rarely drop below 16000Kb/S not had to call customer services yet!

Is that modem indicated speed or a speed test site......the two are very different!

Also be very aware that the IP's are very wise to speed test sites and prioritise them accordingly!

[feeutfo]

spoke to a neighbour today, says when connected to sky from bt he had a loss of speed, turned out to be the white belkin router sky use which is the same as ours.