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[Marks DTM Calib]

Lol, in reality Maggie sorted this country out but, in doing so had to upset a lot of people!. I personaly have no like or dislike for her

She laid the foundations for the last 10+years of economic growth and got rid of the rather huge anounts of debt the labour lot had run up before her (hmmmm, sounds like history about to repeat it self again).

But all most people see is the loss of the huge burden of coal mines (tey dug thier own grave!) and ship building.....

[Lizzie_Zoom]

From a far external point of view ;

question is : in year 2009 with very strong economic and politic relations/bounds to total global capitalist system and also underlying a capitalist economic base what chance have a socialist government  in UK ?

Every chance I believe Cem  

Marx predicted that the capitalist system would destroy itself, and post the event the citizens would create a fair, equal and balanced system where quality of life for the working class (now I suggest it includes the middle classes) would be greatly enhanced away from a profit orientated system. Man (and women) will at last enjoy the full potential of their creativity away from the yolk of profit production.

Over the last year we may well have started to see signs of this prediction coming true.  Very real questions are being asked of the current economic system and psychology behind it.  

The British New Labour Party and it's Government has now created a situation were once more a true 21st century socialist system could rise from the ashes of disastrous modern political policy and 'progress'. 8-) 8-) 8-)

I believe in Marx predictions..

But local and global political capitalist powers wont let the communities to go on its own evolution..

To cut short ,  I think still there is time..And too many wars and bloody struggles before that..(Hoping I'm wrong) :-/

Oh yes, you could well be right Cem!  The current increasingly protective, or utilitarian system where personal liberty is surrendered to the "greater good" of security for society as a whole as the capitalist establishment struggles to survive, may well lead to conflict (The Final??).  But this hopefully will be progression to a new dawn of personal development for every citizen, which permits the expansion of their creative ability within an equal and truly fair society. 8-) 8-)

[Gaffers]

From a far external point of view ;

question is : in year 2009 with very strong economic and politic relations/bounds to total global capitalist system and also underlying a capitalist economic base what chance have a socialist government  in UK ?

Every chance I believe Cem  

Marx predicted that the capitalist system would destroy itself, and post the event the citizens would create a fair, equal and balanced system where quality of life for the working class (now I suggest it includes the middle classes) would be greatly enhanced away from a profit orientated system. Man (and women) will at last enjoy the full potential of their creativity away from the yolk of profit production.

Over the last year we may well have started to see signs of this prediction coming true.  Very real questions are being asked of the current economic system and psychology behind it.  

The British New Labour Party and it's Government has now created a situation were once more a true 21st century socialist system could rise from the ashes of disastrous modern political policy and 'progress'. 8-) 8-) 8-)

I believe in Marx predictions..

But local and global political capitalist powers wont let the communities to go on its own evolution..

To cut short ,  I think still there is time..And too many wars and bloody struggles before that..(Hoping I'm wrong) :-/

Oh yes, you could well be right Cem!  The current increasingly protective, or utilitarian system where personal liberty is surrendered to the "greater good" of security for society as a whole as the capitalist establishment struggles to survive, may well lead to conflict (The Final??).  But this hopefully will be progression to a new dawn of personal development for every citizen, which permits the expansion of their creative ability within an equal and truly fair society. 8-) 8-)

Sounds a bit like a scene from Life of Brian or the Holy Grail  

 

[cem_devecioglu]

When someone write the book about journey to the moon , everybody laughed

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Lol, in reality Maggie sorted this country out but, in doing so had to upset a lot of people!. I personaly have no like or dislike for her

She laid the foundations for the last 10+years of economic growth and got rid of the rather huge anounts of debt the labour lot had run up before her (hmmmm, sounds like history about to repeat it self again).

But all most people see is the loss of the huge burden of coal mines (tey dug thier own grave!) and ship building.....

Yes indeed Mark!  By then the UK was using only a fraction of the coal being produced.....tax payer subsidising under Labour; the ship building industry could not compete with foreign (Japanese ship yards in particular).....tax payer subsidizing; the car plants were outdated and producing crap cars in over bearing unionized environments........tax payer subsidising;  the steel plants were over producing as the market for their products had dramatically declined in the UK due to the collapse of the aforementioned industries, and the lack of worldwide demand.........tax payers subsidising.  

Finally most key industries were being crippled by that previously mentioned trade union factor, especially in the nationalised industries of British Leyland, British Railways and the National Coal Board, with the Government (Labour), and thus......the tax payer......being held to ransom with widespread strikes over ridiculous pay or conditions claims!  Oh yes, and then there was the strike at British Leyland because 'the management' had sacked men regularly sleeping on the floor whilst being paid to work a night shift!

This is all that Maggie brought to a halt after her 1979 election victory.  The 1980's saw pride in GB rise, although, of course, for those who initially lost jobs in the dramatic events it was far from pleasant.  But finally the Government ran the Country, not the unions as they had done prior to 1979. 8-) 8-)

[HolyCount]

I might lean to the right but dress to the left to compensate  

[TheBoy]

From a far external point of view ;

question is : in year 2009 with very strong economic and politic relations/bounds to total global capitalist system and also underlying a capitalist economic base what chance have a socialist government  in UK ?

Every chance I believe Cem  

Marx predicted that the capitalist system would destroy itself, and post the event the citizens would create a fair, equal and balanced system where quality of life for the working class (now I suggest it includes the middle classes) would be greatly enhanced away from a profit orientated system. Man (and women) will at last enjoy the full potential of their creativity away from the yolk of profit production.

Over the last year we may well have started to see signs of this prediction coming true.  Very real questions are being asked of the current economic system and psychology behind it.  

The British New Labour Party and it's Government has now created a situation were once more a true 21st century socialist system could rise from the ashes of disastrous modern political policy and 'progress'. 8-) 8-) 8-)

Trouble with the socialism ideal, certainly in the UK, but probably everywhere, is there are too many lazy tinkers in society.  Why should us decent folk work hard so these lazy tinkers can sit on their fat arses all day, expecting the world to owe them something they have not earned?

[TheBoy]

Bring back Maggie I say.....

She made some difficult decisions possibly even mistakes but she didn't destroy the fabric of UK communities by even a fraction that the way Labour has.  If New Labour wasn't so PC I reckon things wouldn't be as bad as they are but........ :-/ :-/ :-/

She had more balls than any politician to serve after her  

I concur.  She stood up to the do-gooders and sorted out the mess that the previous government had got the country into.  And sorted out a lot of the trade unions that were slowly destroying industry in this country.  Good on her, I say.

[TheBoy]

Lol, in reality Maggie sorted this country out but, in doing so had to upset a lot of people!. I personaly have no like or dislike for her

She laid the foundations for the last 10+years of economic growth and got rid of the rather huge anounts of debt the labour lot had run up before her (hmmmm, sounds like history about to repeat it self again).

But all most people see is the loss of the huge burden of coal mines (tey dug thier own grave!) and ship building.....

Exactly

[TheBoy]

Lol, in reality Maggie sorted this country out but, in doing so had to upset a lot of people!. I personaly have no like or dislike for her

She laid the foundations for the last 10+years of economic growth and got rid of the rather huge anounts of debt the labour lot had run up before her (hmmmm, sounds like history about to repeat it self again).

But all most people see is the loss of the huge burden of coal mines (tey dug thier own grave!) and ship building.....

Yes indeed Mark!  By then the UK was using only a fraction of the coal being produced.....tax payer subsidising under Labour; the ship building industry could not compete with foreign (Japanese ship yards in particular).....tax payer subsidizing; the car plants were outdated and producing crap cars in over bearing unionized environments........tax payer subsidising;  the steel plants were over producing as the market for their products had dramatically declined in the UK due to the collapse of the aforementioned industries, and the lack of worldwide demand.........tax payers subsidising.  

Finally most key industries were being crippled by that previously mentioned trade union factor, especially in the nationalised industries of British Leyland, British Railways and the National Coal Board, with the Government (Labour), and thus......the tax payer......being held to ransom with widespread strikes over ridiculous pay or conditions claims!  Oh yes, and then there was the strike at British Leyland because 'the management' had sacked men regularly sleeping on the floor whilst being paid to work a night shift!

This is all that Maggie brought to a halt after her 1979 election victory.  The 1980's saw pride in GB rise, although, of course, for those who initially lost jobs in the dramatic events it was far from pleasant.  But finally the Government ran the Country, not the unions as they had done prior to 1979. 8-) 8-)

Those jobs were gone anyway, as it was unsustainable to keep subsidising those industries that were never going to recover.

[cem_devecioglu]

From a far external point of view ;

question is : in year 2009 with very strong economic and politic relations/bounds to total global capitalist system and also underlying a capitalist economic base what chance have a socialist government  in UK ?

Every chance I believe Cem  

Marx predicted that the capitalist system would destroy itself, and post the event the citizens would create a fair, equal and balanced system where quality of life for the working class (now I suggest it includes the middle classes) would be greatly enhanced away from a profit orientated system. Man (and women) will at last enjoy the full potential of their creativity away from the yolk of profit production.

Over the last year we may well have started to see signs of this prediction coming true.  Very real questions are being asked of the current economic system and psychology behind it.  

The British New Labour Party and it's Government has now created a situation were once more a true 21st century socialist system could rise from the ashes of disastrous modern political policy and 'progress'. 8-) 8-) 8-)

Trouble with the socialism ideal, certainly in the UK, but probably everywhere, is there are too many lazy tinkers in society.  Why should us decent folk work hard so these lazy tinkers can sit on their fat arses all day, expecting the world to owe them something they have not earned?

Those tinkers unfortunately exist in every system  

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Lol, in reality Maggie sorted this country out but, in doing so had to upset a lot of people!. I personaly have no like or dislike for her

She laid the foundations for the last 10+years of economic growth and got rid of the rather huge anounts of debt the labour lot had run up before her (hmmmm, sounds like history about to repeat it self again).

But all most people see is the loss of the huge burden of coal mines (tey dug thier own grave!) and ship building.....

Yes indeed Mark!  By then the UK was using only a fraction of the coal being produced.....tax payer subsidising under Labour; the ship building industry could not compete with foreign (Japanese ship yards in particular).....tax payer subsidizing; the car plants were outdated and producing crap cars in over bearing unionized environments........tax payer subsidising;  the steel plants were over producing as the market for their products had dramatically declined in the UK due to the collapse of the aforementioned industries, and the lack of worldwide demand.........tax payers subsidising.  

Finally most key industries were being crippled by that previously mentioned trade union factor, especially in the nationalised industries of British Leyland, British Railways and the National Coal Board, with the Government (Labour), and thus......the tax payer......being held to ransom with widespread strikes over ridiculous pay or conditions claims!  Oh yes, and then there was the strike at British Leyland because 'the management' had sacked men regularly sleeping on the floor whilst being paid to work a night shift!

This is all that Maggie brought to a halt after her 1979 election victory.  The 1980's saw pride in GB rise, although, of course, for those who initially lost jobs in the dramatic events it was far from pleasant.  But finally the Government ran the Country, not the unions as they had done prior to 1979. 8-) 8-)

Those jobs were gone anyway, as it was unsustainable to keep subsidising those industries that were never going to recover.

Exactly TB, as I said in different words! 8-) 8-) 8-)

[albitz]

im leaning backwards in my chair, what a strange statement to make :-/

Not really, seems that the government is a permanent cause for complaint, regardless of subject matter, & there just aren't enough trees/ lamposts & rope to go round!
Seems you have all forgotten that wretched Thatcher woman & what she did to the country

I was a young idealistic socialist during the Thatcher years and boy did I hate that woman,but as someone once said "he who has not been a socialist before he was 40 has no heart,and he who is still a socialist after he is 40 has no head" .
With the benefit of hindsight I can see that some of what she did needed doing but I still believe that she did far too much damage along the way and interestingly Norman Tebbit recently said almost exactly the same thing.
Does anyone remember how unpopular she was before the Falklands war,she would have made Gormless seem like Mr popularity himself,she was the most hated prime minister in living memory and had no chance of being re-elected until she single handedly recaptured the Falklands.
I grew out of socialism when it finally dawned on me that the price to pay for it was always going to be enormous sacrifices of individual freedom and that is never a price worth paying.
I dont agree that the current lot are right wing,they are Marxist by nature but try to disguise this because they know that they need big business to provide the jobs and tax revenue to fund their hideous public spending,and it is their Marxist instincts which are eating away at our freedoms day by day.They cant help it its in their DNA.

[cem_devecioglu]

im leaning backwards in my chair, what a strange statement to make :-/

Not really, seems that the government is a permanent cause for complaint, regardless of subject matter, & there just aren't enough trees/ lamposts & rope to go round!
Seems you have all forgotten that wretched Thatcher woman & what she did to the country

I was a young idealistic socialist during the Thatcher years and boy did I hate that woman,but as someone once said "he who has not been a socialist before he was 40 has no heart,and he who is still a socialist after he is 40 has no head" .
With the benefit of hindsight I can see that some of what she did needed doing but I still believe that she did far too much damage along the way and interestingly Norman Tebbit recently said almost exactly the same thing.
Does anyone remember how unpopular she was before the Falklands war,she would have made Gormless seem like Mr popularity himself,she was the most hated prime minister in living memory and had no chance of being re-elected until she single handedly recaptured the Falklands.
I grew out of socialism when it finally dawned on me that the price to pay for it was always going to be enormous sacrifices of individual freedom and that is never a price worth paying.
I dont agree that the current lot are right wing,they are Marxist by nature but try to disguise this because they know that they need big business to provide the jobs and tax revenue to fund their hideous public spending,and it is their Marxist instincts which are eating away at our freedoms day by day.They cant help it its in their DNA.

I have no head  

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Lol, in reality Maggie sorted this country out but, in doing so had to upset a lot of people!. I personaly have no like or dislike for her

She laid the foundations for the last 10+years of economic growth and got rid of the rather huge anounts of debt the labour lot had run up before her (hmmmm, sounds like history about to repeat it self again).

But all most people see is the loss of the huge burden of coal mines (tey dug thier own grave!) and ship building.....

Yes indeed Mark!  By then the UK was using only a fraction of the coal being produced.....tax payer subsidising under Labour; the ship building industry could not compete with foreign (Japanese ship yards in particular).....tax payer subsidizing; the car plants were outdated and producing crap cars in over bearing unionized environments........tax payer subsidising;  the steel plants were over producing as the market for their products had dramatically declined in the UK due to the collapse of the aforementioned industries, and the lack of worldwide demand.........tax payers subsidising.  

Finally most key industries were being crippled by that previously mentioned trade union factor, especially in the nationalised industries of British Leyland, British Railways and the National Coal Board, with the Government (Labour), and thus......the tax payer......being held to ransom with widespread strikes over ridiculous pay or conditions claims!  Oh yes, and then there was the strike at British Leyland because 'the management' had sacked men regularly sleeping on the floor whilst being paid to work a night shift!

This is all that Maggie brought to a halt after her 1979 election victory.  The 1980's saw pride in GB rise, although, of course, for those who initially lost jobs in the dramatic events it was far from pleasant.  But finally the Government ran the Country, not the unions as they had done prior to 1979. 8-) 8-)

Oh Lizzie .................I like you ..............I really do. ........but I have to ask the question.......Are you mad woman?

Thatcher was a disaster for this country......she divided Britain like few other PM 's before or since..................and eventually she became so detached from reality .............that she had to be booted out by her own party at the end of 1990....in order to make way for JM. :-/ :-/ :-/

I agree that this current Labour government has precious little to do with socialist values........as did the Blair government before it. :-/

I feel that we could have a complete change in politics soon......as we did when Clem Attlee replaced Churchill in 1945......and then went on to form the NHS in1948.......something the Tories of the time were very much against.

Don't worry Lizzie....................I still like you ...........even if your politics is well to the right of Vlad the Impaler or Genghis Khan.....so keep up the great postings.