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[Nickbat]

The problem is that so much of the current green hype is propaganda.

Despite our advances in technology and population growth, much of the environment is better now than for many years. The Thames is clean enough to support fish, the smogs of the 1950s and 60s are long gone. It’s not all doom and gloom on the environment front.

The Prius and the other hybrids are knee-jerk reactions to the global warming hype. Saddling western societies with green taxes and regulation (such as through the Waxman-Markey bill in the US Senate) will stifle profitability and thus research and development. It just doesn't work. Given time, we can come up with new technologies. There's no question in my mind about that. In 50 years' time, the cars we will be buying will be hugely different from today's vehicles.

Personally, I don't think the Prius is a step forward. Technologically speaking, it's the love child of a night’s passion between a Mondeo and a milk float.

The simplest answer to most energy problems lies in the invention of a cheap and simple way to store electricity. We don't have the answer yet, but it will come. The batteries of today are crude and, as we can see in the article, laden with environmental problems. Wind power is similarly daft as a substitute for base load, yet more and more are being built. Essentially for every windmill put in place you need an equivalent of its output in conventional generation so that it can be substituted during no wind (or high wind) days.

In the meantime, until new electricity storage solutions are developed, we need to refine the petrol/diesel engine. KERS is an interesting development.

If I were PM I would set manufacturers the following challenge: Develop a mass production, 4-seater vehicle which can cruise at 100mph, with a minimum range of 250 miles and minimum fuel consumption of 100mpg (equivalent). The winning company would get at least two years' exemption from all taxes. That would attract huge investment and massive R&D.

The Prius? Just a gimmick, I'm afraid.   

[crazyjoetavola]

I had a Prius driver come up to me in a car park recently and start ranting about how my 10yr old gas guzzler was destroying the planet.
If only he thought about the environmental cost of producing a new car he would see that older cars are actually 'greener', we need to get the maximum use out of them before making a fresh one.

You are right enough there Matchless I have met those self same smug individuals and take a certain amount of pleasure informing them that my other car is a distinctly un-environmentaly friendly Omega and that I am presently looking for a P38 4.6 Range Rover. 8-)

The Prius however remains my car of choice for trips into Belfast

[crazyjoetavola]

Prius and the other hybrids are knee-jerk reactions to the global warming hype.


Both Toyota and Honda were working on the technology from the mid 90s when environmental matters were not as precient as they now are, so is it fair to describe the resultant technology as a knee-jerk reaction? :-/


Technologically speaking, it's the love child of a night’s passion between a Mondeo and a milk float.

I like that, it's a great descriptor


If I were PM I would set manufacturers the following challenge: Develop a mass production, 4-seater vehicle which can cruise at 100mph, with a minimum range of 250 miles and minimum fuel consumption of 100mpg (equivalent). The winning company would get at least two years' exemption from all taxes. That would attract huge investment and massive


That's what should happen Nick - but will it? :-/ :-/ No one seems to want to belly-up until they're forced to by legislation or financial penalty

The Prius? Just a gimmick, I'm afraid


It's a really practical car Nick, hybrid or not and it deserves to be regarded much more for this practicality than the 'green' label so readily applied to it

This has been a great topic and I thank you for raising it.  It's refreshing to see an argument presented in a well researched and balanced way and I look forward to your future posts with much interest

When you're an old geezer like me it's important to keep the grey matter active otherwise it turns to custard

[Kevin Wood]

I had a Prius driver come up to me in a car park recently and start ranting about how my 10yr old gas guzzler was destroying the planet.

I think what they really mean to say is "can you light up the rears as you depart? I've forgotten what it's like" 

It's kinder to oblige, IMHO.

Kevin

[crazyjoetavola]

I had a Prius driver come up to me in a car park recently and start ranting about how my 10yr old gas guzzler was destroying the planet.

I think what they really mean to say is "can you light up the rears as you depart? I've forgotten what it's like"

It's kinder to oblige, IMHO.

Kevin

In the local parlance Kevin - You're suckin' diesel now ya boy ye

[Nickbat]

Zulu 77: It's a really practical car Nick, hybrid or not

Yep, you're right. Neighbour opposite me is using one as a cab. My problem is those who see it as a Toyota Pious.

[crazyjoetavola]

Zulu 77: It's a really practical car Nick, hybrid or not

Yep, you're right. Neighbour opposite me is using one as a cab. My problem is those who see it as a Toyota Pious.

  good one Nick  and there are many of them about

[Banjax]

The problem is that so much of the current green hype is propaganda.

Despite our advances in technology and population growth, much of the environment is better now than for many years. The Thames is clean enough to support fish, the smogs of the 1950s and 60s are long gone. It’s not all doom and gloom on the environment front.

The Prius and the other hybrids are knee-jerk reactions to the global warming hype. Saddling western societies with green taxes and regulation (such as through the Waxman-Markey bill in the US Senate) will stifle profitability and thus research and development. It just doesn't work. Given time, we can come up with new technologies. There's no question in my mind about that. In 50 years' time, the cars we will be buying will be hugely different from today's vehicles.

Personally, I don't think the Prius is a step forward. Technologically speaking, it's the love child of a night’s passion between a Mondeo and a milk float.

The simplest answer to most energy problems lies in the invention of a cheap and simple way to store electricity. We don't have the answer yet, but it will come. The batteries of today are crude and, as we can see in the article, laden with environmental problems. Wind power is similarly daft as a substitute for base load, yet more and more are being built. Essentially for every windmill put in place you need an equivalent of its output in conventional generation so that it can be substituted during no wind (or high wind) days.

In the meantime, until new electricity storage solutions are developed, we need to refine the petrol/diesel engine. KERS is an interesting development.

If I were PM I would set manufacturers the following challenge: Develop a mass production, 4-seater vehicle which can cruise at 100mph, with a minimum range of 250 miles and minimum fuel consumption of 100mpg (equivalent). The winning company would get at least two years' exemption from all taxes. That would attract huge investment and massive R&D.

The Prius? Just a gimmick, I'm afraid.   

totally agree Nickbat!
the prius is a gimmick - made to con people that want to be seen to be doing the right thing - i read an article a while ago that argued (very well) that a Prius was costlier to the environment than a Hummer! - i'll see if i can remember where it was.

the fact is that the internal combustion engine has been honed and developed continually for over 100yrs and as a consequence is incredibly efficient at burning fuel - cars like the prius aren't the answer - nut Toyota have cottoned on to the fact that people like to be seen to be green - Pious indeed

far better channelling their resources into technology like the Honda Clarity - uses hydrogen cells but as it took 100yrs to get where we are with engines, it may take time before a viable alternative is found.

what's not in dispute is that an alternative WILL be needed

[Omega man 2]

It's not just the prius. If you drive it because it's actually good as a car i.e practical,spacious etc. thats fine.

But it's the whole hybrid image thats the problem. "Global warming" must be the best money spinner ever.

First of all the new scrappage scheme, great idea! Get rid of your perfactly good 10-year-old car that is paid for and not wasting anything that isn't necessary,buy an new car thats been shiped around the world a couple of times,save the car industry and give the government more tax.Then when you buy said car you'll be charged green tax.

Government then wastes that tax money on pointless "carbon credits".

Al Gore actually owns a carbon credit company then goes preaching global warming, what an entrepreneur!!

[crazyjoetavola]

[

made to thcon people at want to be seen to be doing the right thing

I have to say bannjaxx  I don't consider myself conned,  the Prius seems to deliver as promised. I can balance the green hype as I have retained the Omega and am presently looking for a nice P38 Range Rover 4.6


cars like the prius aren't the answer - nut Toyota have cottoned on to the fact that people like to be seen to be green


Toyota are in the business of designing and selling cars and it's to their advantage that the confusion over 'green-ness' has been exploited by lawmakers in an effort to draw more cash from the great unwashed and to prepare us for even greater state control - Controlling free movement = controlling the populace.


what's not in dispute is that an alternative WILL be needed [/quote]


You've nailed that one dead bannjaxx but what will it be.  Toyota and Honda got the ball rolling by developing the technology whenever the industry in general was too busy making money by exploiting existing and essentially out-dated technology.

I will however endeavour to gather a supply of gum as I don't want my arse kicked anymore

[crazyjoetavola]

It's not just the prius. If you drive it because it's actually good as a car i.e practical,spacious etc. thats fine.

But it's the whole hybrid image thats the problem. "Global warming" must be the best money spinner ever.
First of all the new scrappage scheme, great idea! Get rid of your perfactly good 10-year-old car that is paid for and not wasting anything that isn't necessary,buy an new car thats been shiped around the world a couple of times,save the car industry and give the government more tax.Then when you buy said car you'll be charged green tax.

Government then wastes that tax money on pointless "carbon credits".

Al Gore actually owns a carbon credit company then goes preaching global warming, what an entrepreneur!!

It is Ron and we'll all pay very dearly for it

[Nickbat]

Maybe the Stirling engine is the way forward? I'd never heard of it before, but it looks mighty interesting:

http://alfin2100.blogspot.com/search/label/Dean%20Kamen

"A Stirling can run on just about anything that creates heat, from gasoline, kerosene, and ethanol, to natural gas, propane, hydrogen, and, yes, the methane given off by animal manure."

 

[crazyjoetavola]

Maybe the Stirling engine is the way forward? I'd never heard of it before, but it looks mighty interesting:

http://alfin2100.blogspot.com/search/label/Dean%20Kamen

"A Stirling can run on just about anything that creates heat, from gasoline, kerosene, and ethanol, to natural gas, propane, hydrogen, and, yes, the methane given off by animal manure."

 

Nick you're going to get the back of my head smacked.  SWMBO has directed me to attended the kitchen and make the dinner ( I do all the cooking you see) and I have been gently reminded that I've 'been sitting at that box for hours'

It does sound interesting however, so I'll look into it later after discharging my domestic duties

[Martin_1962]

I get the feeling that my 115,000 mile Omega is green as it is in reasonable conditon and getting better. Also it runs on LPG - which is a by product from refining and used to get flared

[crazyjoetavola]

I get the feeling that my 115,000 mile Omega is green as it is in reasonable conditon and getting better. Also it runs on LPG - which is a by product from refining and used to get flared

That's an important point Martin.

 I agree totally.  It must be more sensible to continue to use well looked-after vehicles until they reach the end of their practical service lives rather than junk them, for something apparently better for the environment, before it's absolutely necessary.

The replacement creates it's own environmental impact and why cause additional problems when it's so unnecessary