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[Dishevelled Den]

While Hitchens is a bit of a renegade and no lover of the Tory party as presently constituted I always enjoy his analysis.

To confine one's opinion on M T to this issue would be to do a disservice to a Premier who stirred the stodgy pot of British politics at a time when the country was left on its arse from yet another period of Liebour misrule.

Brussels was and always will be the bane of this nation and that sinister place has gained more control than is healthy over the fortunes of this nation.  The sad thing is that her government didn't poke sufficient fingers into the glaring optics of that malevolent place once and for all at the time.

I remember her with fondness and it's a pity that she was surrounded by quite a few gutless bastards who had no stomach for a fight.  She did go too far toward she end and when you make that number of enemies there's only one way to go.

Hitchins has his view, I have mine and it won't by swayed by his latest piece.

Written in your usual erudite way Zulu.............but sadly...........I have to disagree.
Thatcher was a poor PM .......and not a very pleasant person..(I prefer not to use the word "woman" with this individual....
In summary.......she was ......uncaring.......charmless.....and unkind....and as Albitz mentioned ......took great pleasure in destroying the trade unions.
We should not forget ..............that she was booted out by her own party in 1990...........as .......by then..... she had become completely detached from reality.

...thank you for that cogent well reasoned piece O, some of the points are well made and I don't disagree but going back to my comment on Peter Hitchins' view of M T, I won't be swayed - for reasons I can't go into on this open Forum, sadly so I might well add

[Nickbat]

While Hitchens is a bit of a renegade and no lover of the Tory party as presently constituted I always enjoy his analysis.

To confine one's opinion on M T to this issue would be to do a disservice to a Premier who stirred the stodgy pot of British politics at a time when the country was left on its arse from yet another period of Liebour misrule.

Brussels was and always will be the bane of this nation and that sinister place has gained more control than is healthy over the fortunes of this nation.  The sad thing is that her government didn't poke sufficient fingers into the glaring optics of that malevolent place once and for all at the time.

I remember her with fondness and it's a pity that she was surrounded by quite a few gutless bastards who had no stomach for a fight.  She did go too far toward she end and when you make that number of enemies there's only one way to go.

Hitchins has his view, I have mine and it won't by swayed by his latest piece.

Written in your usual erudite way Zulu.............but sadly...........I have to disagree.
Thatcher was a poor PM .......and not a very pleasant person..(I prefer not to use the word "woman" with this individual....
In summary.......she was ......uncaring.......charmless.....and unkind....and as Albitz mentioned ......took great pleasure in destroying the trade unions.
We should not forget ..............that she was booted out by her own party in 1990...........as .......by then..... she had become completely detached from reality.

That, in itself, was great achievement in my book. By the 1970s, the trade union movement had outlived its initial purpose and was basically trying to muscle to make government policy with block voting. The fact that Mick McGahey, Arthur Scargill and Red Robbo were consigned to history's bin was a job well done.

Shame Bob Crow's still bleating on, though.   

[mantahatch]

dear oh dear where do i start with Mrs T?

how about the wholesale breaking up and privatising of British Petroleum, British Aerospace, Britoil,British Telecom, the buses, British Gas, British Airways, British Steel, Regional Water Authorities, and the National Grid

for someone who was so fiercely patriotic she had a strange way of showing it - selling us down to river to foreign investors


how about the Falklands? an insignificant little backwater none of us had heard of until Argentina decided to reclaim it - indeed her government refused to grant full British citizenship to the islanders as late as 1981, giving Argentina a green light (an Argentina, incidentally, armed by Thatcher - she had a love of South American dictators when it suited...Pinochet, Galtieri) a war fought solely to bolster her polls and return her to power.

Did you love the 18% interest rate or the 3 million unemployed that it cost to recover?

Her support of apartheid in South Africa (Mandela was a terrorist, eh Maggie?)

Remember the Poll Tax?

The riots, the strikes?

yep - she was a great leader 

As for the breaking up of the utility companies, do you remember the time when it took 3 months + to get a phone installed ?
Falkland Islands- there are many places like this which we the general public don't think or no about until a problem occurs.
Interest rates- yes they where high at times.
Unemployment 3 million eh, well just think what it really is today 2+ million officily today with numerous ones moved over to disabilty benefit to hide the figures, then don't include under 18s etc. I would estimate the real level to be about 4 to 4.5 million today.
Mandela a terrorist- well look at the facts, both he and his wife where suspected off being involved in a murder. And rightly or wrongly the law at the time found him guilty. wether that law was wrong is for better people than me to decide.
The poll tax, my favourite. This was fantastic, my aging last grandparent paid about 10% of the poll tax because it involved the ability to pay and how likely you where to use the services. All the poll tax did was make those pay who should be paying, and saved our pensioners and vulnerable people a bit of money.

The riots and srikes, riots can't really comment as they did not happen where I was living. The miners strikes, depends on what side of the fence you sat. But the arthur scargill should take 99% of the blame for the miners strike. He was demanding that the pits stay open regardless of cost. Is that feasible ? 

She was needed a time when the country was in desperate trouble. under the previous labour government, the unions arrived at 10 Downing Street and told the prime minister what they wanted, and if he did not agree, half the unions came out on strike.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

While Hitchens is a bit of a renegade and no lover of the Tory party as presently constituted I always enjoy his analysis.

To confine one's opinion on M T to this issue would be to do a disservice to a Premier who stirred the stodgy pot of British politics at a time when the country was left on its arse from yet another period of Liebour misrule.

Brussels was and always will be the bane of this nation and that sinister place has gained more control than is healthy over the fortunes of this nation.  The sad thing is that her government didn't poke sufficient fingers into the glaring optics of that malevolent place once and for all at the time.

I remember her with fondness and it's a pity that she was surrounded by quite a few gutless bastards who had no stomach for a fight.  She did go too far toward she end and when you make that number of enemies there's only one way to go.

Hitchins has his view, I have mine and it won't by swayed by his latest piece.

Written in your usual erudite way Zulu.............but sadly...........I have to disagree.
Thatcher was a poor PM .......and not a very pleasant person..(I prefer not to use the word "woman" with this individual....
In summary.......she was ......uncaring.......charmless.....and unkind....and as Albitz mentioned ......took great pleasure in destroying the trade unions.
We should not forget ..............that she was booted out by her own party in 1990...........as .......by then..... she had become completely detached from reality.

That, in itself, was great achievement in my book. By the 1970s, the trade union movement had outlived its initial purpose and was basically trying to muscle to make government policy with block voting. The fact that Mick McGahey, Arthur Scargill and Red Robbo were consigned to history's bin was a job well done.

Shame Bob Crow's still bleating on, though.   

I can see that you are not a big fan of the trade unions  Nickbat..........and I agree that certain union leaders can become more important than the members they serve..........................but it is worth remembering........... that if the trade union movement had never existed..............then the average worker would have to toil for 18 hours a day...seven days a week............365 days a year............in order to earn enough money for a stale loaf of bread and a cup of manky water.

[Nickbat]

While Hitchens is a bit of a renegade and no lover of the Tory party as presently constituted I always enjoy his analysis.

To confine one's opinion on M T to this issue would be to do a disservice to a Premier who stirred the stodgy pot of British politics at a time when the country was left on its arse from yet another period of Liebour misrule.

Brussels was and always will be the bane of this nation and that sinister place has gained more control than is healthy over the fortunes of this nation.  The sad thing is that her government didn't poke sufficient fingers into the glaring optics of that malevolent place once and for all at the time.

I remember her with fondness and it's a pity that she was surrounded by quite a few gutless bastards who had no stomach for a fight.  She did go too far toward she end and when you make that number of enemies there's only one way to go.

Hitchins has his view, I have mine and it won't by swayed by his latest piece.

Written in your usual erudite way Zulu.............but sadly...........I have to disagree.
Thatcher was a poor PM .......and not a very pleasant person..(I prefer not to use the word "woman" with this individual....
In summary.......she was ......uncaring.......charmless.....and unkind....and as Albitz mentioned ......took great pleasure in destroying the trade unions.
We should not forget ..............that she was booted out by her own party in 1990...........as .......by then..... she had become completely detached from reality.

That, in itself, was great achievement in my book. By the 1970s, the trade union movement had outlived its initial purpose and was basically trying to muscle to make government policy with block voting. The fact that Mick McGahey, Arthur Scargill and Red Robbo were consigned to history's bin was a job well done.

Shame Bob Crow's still bleating on, though.   

I can see that you are not a big fan of the trade unions  Nickbat..........and I agree that certain union leaders can become more important than the members they serve..........................but it is worth remembering........... that if the trade union movement had never existed..............then the average worker would have to toil for 18 hours a day...seven days a week............365 days a year............in order to earn enough money for a stale loaf of bread and a cup of manky water.

Yes, but you see that I wrote that they outlived their initial purpose. Of course they helped shaped the way that workers were treated (and helped them individually in times of need) and that is to be roundly applauded.

The problem is that they latterly became political and the miners' strike was not really about the miners at all, it was about power. The NUM had shown that they could, by halting coal production, effectively hold a government to ransom - or at least that's what they hoped. Turned out differently, I'm glad to say.

[Banjax]

dear oh dear where do i start with Mrs T?

how about the wholesale breaking up and privatising of British Petroleum, British Aerospace, Britoil,British Telecom, the buses, British Gas, British Airways, British Steel, Regional Water Authorities, and the National Grid

for someone who was so fiercely patriotic she had a strange way of showing it - selling us down to river to foreign investors


how about the Falklands? an insignificant little backwater none of us had heard of until Argentina decided to reclaim it - indeed her government refused to grant full British citizenship to the islanders as late as 1981, giving Argentina a green light (an Argentina, incidentally, armed by Thatcher - she had a love of South American dictators when it suited...Pinochet, Galtieri) a war fought solely to bolster her polls and return her to power.

Did you love the 18% interest rate or the 3 million unemployed that it cost to recover?

Her support of apartheid in South Africa (Mandela was a terrorist, eh Maggie?)

Remember the Poll Tax?

The riots, the strikes?

yep - she was a great leader 

As for the breaking up of the utility companies, do you remember the time when it took 3 months + to get a phone installed ?
Falkland Islands- there are many places like this which we the general public don't think or no about until a problem occurs.
Interest rates- yes they where high at times.
Unemployment 3 million eh, well just think what it really is today 2+ million officily today with numerous ones moved over to disabilty benefit to hide the figures, then don't include under 18s etc. I would estimate the real level to be about 4 to 4.5 million today.
Mandela a terrorist- well look at the facts, both he and his wife where suspected off being involved in a murder. And rightly or wrongly the law at the time found him guilty. wether that law was wrong is for better people than me to decide.
The poll tax, my favourite. This was fantastic, my aging last grandparent paid about 10% of the poll tax because it involved the ability to pay and how likely you where to use the services. All the poll tax did was make those pay who should be paying, and saved our pensioners and vulnerable people a bit of money.

The riots and srikes, riots can't really comment as they did not happen where I was living. The miners strikes, depends on what side of the fence you sat. But the arthur scargill should take 99% of the blame for the miners strike. He was demanding that the pits stay open regardless of cost. Is that feasible ? 

She was needed a time when the country was in desperate trouble. under the previous labour government, the unions arrived at 10 Downing Street and told the prime minister what they wanted, and if he did not agree, half the unions came out on strike.

where do i start? 

i'm rarely rendered speechless by a post on OOF 

[Dishevelled Den]

That, in itself, was great achievement in my book. By the 1970s, the trade union movement had outlived its initial purpose and was basically trying to muscle to make government policy with block voting. The fact that Mick McGahey, Arthur Scargill and Red Robbo were consigned to history's bin was a job well done.

Shame Bob Crow's still bleating on, though.   

....and if many forget how mis-directed union power can be, look at the practices still being employed by CWU and RMT and how those have placed their respective disciplines at risk.

[mantahatch]

dear oh dear where do i start with Mrs T?

how about the wholesale breaking up and privatising of British Petroleum, British Aerospace, Britoil,British Telecom, the buses, British Gas, British Airways, British Steel, Regional Water Authorities, and the National Grid

for someone who was so fiercely patriotic she had a strange way of showing it - selling us down to river to foreign investors


how about the Falklands? an insignificant little backwater none of us had heard of until Argentina decided to reclaim it - indeed her government refused to grant full British citizenship to the islanders as late as 1981, giving Argentina a green light (an Argentina, incidentally, armed by Thatcher - she had a love of South American dictators when it suited...Pinochet, Galtieri) a war fought solely to bolster her polls and return her to power.

Did you love the 18% interest rate or the 3 million unemployed that it cost to recover?

Her support of apartheid in South Africa (Mandela was a terrorist, eh Maggie?)

Remember the Poll Tax?

The riots, the strikes?

yep - she was a great leader 

As for the breaking up of the utility companies, do you remember the time when it took 3 months + to get a phone installed ?
Falkland Islands- there are many places like this which we the general public don't think or no about until a problem occurs.
Interest rates- yes they where high at times.
Unemployment 3 million eh, well just think what it really is today 2+ million officily today with numerous ones moved over to disabilty benefit to hide the figures, then don't include under 18s etc. I would estimate the real level to be about 4 to 4.5 million today.
Mandela a terrorist- well look at the facts, both he and his wife where suspected off being involved in a murder. And rightly or wrongly the law at the time found him guilty. wether that law was wrong is for better people than me to decide.
The poll tax, my favourite. This was fantastic, my aging last grandparent paid about 10% of the poll tax because it involved the ability to pay and how likely you where to use the services. All the poll tax did was make those pay who should be paying, and saved our pensioners and vulnerable people a bit of money.

The riots and srikes, riots can't really comment as they did not happen where I was living. The miners strikes, depends on what side of the fence you sat. But the arthur scargill should take 99% of the blame for the miners strike. He was demanding that the pits stay open regardless of cost. Is that feasible ? 

She was needed a time when the country was in desperate trouble. under the previous labour government, the unions arrived at 10 Downing Street and told the prime minister what they wanted, and if he did not agree, half the unions came out on strike.

where do i start? 

i'm rarely rendered speechless by a post on OOF 

Ok let's start with one thing at a time, the utilities they where are law unto themselves, the GPO at the time had to be the biggest joke of all, if you wanted a phone and line, they put you into a que. and told you when it was going to be installed, no discussion, it was at there bidding. Also try getting a job in the utility companies in the 70s, no chance, just like the docks you had to be a union member and no someone who works there, this practice continues to some degree to this day in southampton docks.

The only utility I disagreed with privatising was the water authority, as beleive that should be in public control.

I would also add I do not own and never have owned shares in any of the utility companies, so I never made any money out of it.

Now why is that so shocking to you. ? If I am not telling it how it was, perhaps you could inform where I have got it wrong. 

[mantahatch]

dear oh dear where do i start with Mrs T?

how about the wholesale breaking up and privatising of British Petroleum, British Aerospace, Britoil,British Telecom, the buses, British Gas, British Airways, British Steel, Regional Water Authorities, and the National Grid

for someone who was so fiercely patriotic she had a strange way of showing it - selling us down to river to foreign investors


how about the Falklands? an insignificant little backwater none of us had heard of until Argentina decided to reclaim it - indeed her government refused to grant full British citizenship to the islanders as late as 1981, giving Argentina a green light (an Argentina, incidentally, armed by Thatcher - she had a love of South American dictators when it suited...Pinochet, Galtieri) a war fought solely to bolster her polls and return her to power.

Did you love the 18% interest rate or the 3 million unemployed that it cost to recover?

Her support of apartheid in South Africa (Mandela was a terrorist, eh Maggie?)

Remember the Poll Tax?

The riots, the strikes?

yep - she was a great leader 

As for the breaking up of the utility companies, do you remember the time when it took 3 months + to get a phone installed ?
Falkland Islands- there are many places like this which we the general public don't think or no about until a problem occurs.
Interest rates- yes they where high at times.
Unemployment 3 million eh, well just think what it really is today 2+ million officily today with numerous ones moved over to disabilty benefit to hide the figures, then don't include under 18s etc. I would estimate the real level to be about 4 to 4.5 million today.
Mandela a terrorist- well look at the facts, both he and his wife where suspected off being involved in a murder. And rightly or wrongly the law at the time found him guilty. wether that law was wrong is for better people than me to decide.
The poll tax, my favourite. This was fantastic, my aging last grandparent paid about 10% of the poll tax because it involved the ability to pay and how likely you where to use the services. All the poll tax did was make those pay who should be paying, and saved our pensioners and vulnerable people a bit of money.

The riots and srikes, riots can't really comment as they did not happen where I was living. The miners strikes, depends on what side of the fence you sat. But the arthur scargill should take 99% of the blame for the miners strike. He was demanding that the pits stay open regardless of cost. Is that feasible ? 

She was needed a time when the country was in desperate trouble. under the previous labour government, the unions arrived at 10 Downing Street and told the prime minister what they wanted, and if he did not agree, half the unions came out on strike.

where do i start? 

i'm rarely rendered speechless by a post on OOF 

The falkland Islands, are you really saying that a war was started to win her the general election ?

The UK has many different places around the world, more common one's being Gibraltar and Bermuda. and there less well known ones.
Now if any of these places where attacked I am sure the UK government would help to defend them. And not all of them have the right to a UK passport, or are ruled directly by the UK.

Also I think you will find That France and the USA supplied Argentina with many weapons aswell. In fact I believe one story goes that the great US was hoping Argentina would win.

[mantahatch]

dear oh dear where do i start with Mrs T?

how about the wholesale breaking up and privatising of British Petroleum, British Aerospace, Britoil,British Telecom, the buses, British Gas, British Airways, British Steel, Regional Water Authorities, and the National Grid

for someone who was so fiercely patriotic she had a strange way of showing it - selling us down to river to foreign investors


how about the Falklands? an insignificant little backwater none of us had heard of until Argentina decided to reclaim it - indeed her government refused to grant full British citizenship to the islanders as late as 1981, giving Argentina a green light (an Argentina, incidentally, armed by Thatcher - she had a love of South American dictators when it suited...Pinochet, Galtieri) a war fought solely to bolster her polls and return her to power.

Did you love the 18% interest rate or the 3 million unemployed that it cost to recover?

Her support of apartheid in South Africa (Mandela was a terrorist, eh Maggie?)

Remember the Poll Tax?

The riots, the strikes?

yep - she was a great leader 

As for the breaking up of the utility companies, do you remember the time when it took 3 months + to get a phone installed ?
Falkland Islands- there are many places like this which we the general public don't think or no about until a problem occurs.
Interest rates- yes they where high at times.
Unemployment 3 million eh, well just think what it really is today 2+ million officily today with numerous ones moved over to disabilty benefit to hide the figures, then don't include under 18s etc. I would estimate the real level to be about 4 to 4.5 million today.
Mandela a terrorist- well look at the facts, both he and his wife where suspected off being involved in a murder. And rightly or wrongly the law at the time found him guilty. wether that law was wrong is for better people than me to decide.
The poll tax, my favourite. This was fantastic, my aging last grandparent paid about 10% of the poll tax because it involved the ability to pay and how likely you where to use the services. All the poll tax did was make those pay who should be paying, and saved our pensioners and vulnerable people a bit of money.

The riots and srikes, riots can't really comment as they did not happen where I was living. The miners strikes, depends on what side of the fence you sat. But the arthur scargill should take 99% of the blame for the miners strike. He was demanding that the pits stay open regardless of cost. Is that feasible ? 

She was needed a time when the country was in desperate trouble. under the previous labour government, the unions arrived at 10 Downing Street and told the prime minister what they wanted, and if he did not agree, half the unions came out on strike.

where do i start? 

i'm rarely rendered speechless by a post on OOF 

Agreed, the tory govt of the time tried to control to much with interest rates, and this was a failing.

As for unemployment, well the old saying has to go. There are lies. lies and damned statistics. But I firmly believe there are more today than when she was in power.
For my reasoning behind this, in the last recession of 91/92 it did not really effect this area at all. In this lovely recession it has, many jobs lost. not least my own job was under threat a few months back

[Marks DTM Calib]

I agree with some of what you say (as always Z) but I will always maintain that her sledgehammer which cracked the union nut so to speak,destroyed British Industry and left us a nation of waiters and chambermaids.If the whole coal industry hadnt been sacrificed on her altar in  order to beat the lunatic Scargill,we wouldnt be paying ludicrous prices for imported coal for the new generation of coal powered power stations and held to ransome by all and sundry for our future energy needs.

Its a global market place, and we couldn;t compete.....it would have gone anyway and costed us as a nation a fortune on the way.

That and a small minority of minors sealed thier own fate by buggering productivity!

As for being held to ransom.....the coal is all still there but, its not cheaper to get out the ground than it is to import or it would be happening. we may in the future be glad its still there of course!

[mantahatch]

dear oh dear where do i start with Mrs T?

how about the wholesale breaking up and privatising of British Petroleum, British Aerospace, Britoil,British Telecom, the buses, British Gas, British Airways, British Steel, Regional Water Authorities, and the National Grid

for someone who was so fiercely patriotic she had a strange way of showing it - selling us down to river to foreign investors


how about the Falklands? an insignificant little backwater none of us had heard of until Argentina decided to reclaim it - indeed her government refused to grant full British citizenship to the islanders as late as 1981, giving Argentina a green light (an Argentina, incidentally, armed by Thatcher - she had a love of South American dictators when it suited...Pinochet, Galtieri) a war fought solely to bolster her polls and return her to power.

Did you love the 18% interest rate or the 3 million unemployed that it cost to recover?

Her support of apartheid in South Africa (Mandela was a terrorist, eh Maggie?)

Remember the Poll Tax?

The riots, the strikes?

yep - she was a great leader 

As for the breaking up of the utility companies, do you remember the time when it took 3 months + to get a phone installed ?
Falkland Islands- there are many places like this which we the general public don't think or no about until a problem occurs.
Interest rates- yes they where high at times.
Unemployment 3 million eh, well just think what it really is today 2+ million officily today with numerous ones moved over to disabilty benefit to hide the figures, then don't include under 18s etc. I would estimate the real level to be about 4 to 4.5 million today.
Mandela a terrorist- well look at the facts, both he and his wife where suspected off being involved in a murder. And rightly or wrongly the law at the time found him guilty. wether that law was wrong is for better people than me to decide.
The poll tax, my favourite. This was fantastic, my aging last grandparent paid about 10% of the poll tax because it involved the ability to pay and how likely you where to use the services. All the poll tax did was make those pay who should be paying, and saved our pensioners and vulnerable people a bit of money.

The riots and srikes, riots can't really comment as they did not happen where I was living. The miners strikes, depends on what side of the fence you sat. But the arthur scargill should take 99% of the blame for the miners strike. He was demanding that the pits stay open regardless of cost. Is that feasible ? 

She was needed a time when the country was in desperate trouble. under the previous labour government, the unions arrived at 10 Downing Street and told the prime minister what they wanted, and if he did not agree, half the unions came out on strike.

where do i start? 

i'm rarely rendered speechless by a post on OOF 

Mandela
I will mot comment any further on ex terrorists now finding themselves in high paid jobs jobs living very comfortably.

Yes apartheid was wrong, but seeking justice through violence is equally wrong.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

I agree with some of what you say (as always Z) but I will always maintain that her sledgehammer which cracked the union nut so to speak,destroyed British Industry and left us a nation of waiters and chambermaids.If the whole coal industry hadnt been sacrificed on her altar in  order to beat the lunatic Scargill,we wouldnt be paying ludicrous prices for imported coal for the new generation of coal powered power stations and held to ransome by all and sundry for our future energy needs.

Its a global market place, and we couldn;t compete.....it would have gone anyway and costed us as a nation a fortune on the way.

That and a small minority of minors sealed thier own fate by buggering productivity!

As for being held to ransom.....the coal is all still there but, its not cheaper to get out the ground than it is to import or it would be happening. we may in the future be glad its still there of course!

Entering this debate late, but you are absolutely correct Mark.

In the 1970s we had to endue stupid strikes, poor industrial productivity, awful industrail relations, crap British cars with diobolical realiabilty, products that no one wanted, non-competative market practices, rubbish not being collected, the dead not being buried, weak political leadership, very high national debt, and worse of all the whole British nation being described by foreigners as "the sick man of Europe" that was "going down the toilet"!!!

Post 1979, and the great couragous performance by Thatcher all that changed and we could at last hold our heads up as British citizens in a world that again was treating us with respect

Thatcher is what this country required at that time, as Churchill was in 1940, and now what we need is a leader of the same strong character for these times to right the mess we are witnessing currently 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-)

[mantahatch]

dear oh dear where do i start with Mrs T?

how about the wholesale breaking up and privatising of British Petroleum, British Aerospace, Britoil,British Telecom, the buses, British Gas, British Airways, British Steel, Regional Water Authorities, and the National Grid

for someone who was so fiercely patriotic she had a strange way of showing it - selling us down to river to foreign investors


how about the Falklands? an insignificant little backwater none of us had heard of until Argentina decided to reclaim it - indeed her government refused to grant full British citizenship to the islanders as late as 1981, giving Argentina a green light (an Argentina, incidentally, armed by Thatcher - she had a love of South American dictators when it suited...Pinochet, Galtieri) a war fought solely to bolster her polls and return her to power.

Did you love the 18% interest rate or the 3 million unemployed that it cost to recover?

Her support of apartheid in South Africa (Mandela was a terrorist, eh Maggie?)

Remember the Poll Tax?

The riots, the strikes?

yep - she was a great leader 

As for the breaking up of the utility companies, do you remember the time when it took 3 months + to get a phone installed ?
Falkland Islands- there are many places like this which we the general public don't think or no about until a problem occurs.
Interest rates- yes they where high at times.
Unemployment 3 million eh, well just think what it really is today 2+ million officily today with numerous ones moved over to disabilty benefit to hide the figures, then don't include under 18s etc. I would estimate the real level to be about 4 to 4.5 million today.
Mandela a terrorist- well look at the facts, both he and his wife where suspected off being involved in a murder. And rightly or wrongly the law at the time found him guilty. wether that law was wrong is for better people than me to decide.
The poll tax, my favourite. This was fantastic, my aging last grandparent paid about 10% of the poll tax because it involved the ability to pay and how likely you where to use the services. All the poll tax did was make those pay who should be paying, and saved our pensioners and vulnerable people a bit of money.

The riots and srikes, riots can't really comment as they did not happen where I was living. The miners strikes, depends on what side of the fence you sat. But the arthur scargill should take 99% of the blame for the miners strike. He was demanding that the pits stay open regardless of cost. Is that feasible ? 

She was needed a time when the country was in desperate trouble. under the previous labour government, the unions arrived at 10 Downing Street and told the prime minister what they wanted, and if he did not agree, half the unions came out on strike.

where do i start? 

i'm rarely rendered speechless by a post on OOF 

The poll tax

The poll tax expected people who could afford to pay, to pay.
The less well off (the elderly) had a substantial reduction. Those protested about it only took money off old people.

Speaking to a local councillor at the time, he informed me it was the way the borough councils brought in the poll tax that was wrong, they each hired a load of new staff to work on the poll tax, on top of the rates staff which meant the poll tax nearly doubled because of that. (liberal councillor by the way)
And in the end no rates staff or poll tax staff lost there jobs.

My granmother lived in 3 bed semi council house and was paying 10% of the poll tax, the 5 working adults next to her had to pay more. now which is fair ?
Perhaps you prefer the council tax of today where are elderly have to pay it in full.

[mantahatch]

dear oh dear where do i start with Mrs T?

how about the wholesale breaking up and privatising of British Petroleum, British Aerospace, Britoil,British Telecom, the buses, British Gas, British Airways, British Steel, Regional Water Authorities, and the National Grid

for someone who was so fiercely patriotic she had a strange way of showing it - selling us down to river to foreign investors


how about the Falklands? an insignificant little backwater none of us had heard of until Argentina decided to reclaim it - indeed her government refused to grant full British citizenship to the islanders as late as 1981, giving Argentina a green light (an Argentina, incidentally, armed by Thatcher - she had a love of South American dictators when it suited...Pinochet, Galtieri) a war fought solely to bolster her polls and return her to power.

Did you love the 18% interest rate or the 3 million unemployed that it cost to recover?

Her support of apartheid in South Africa (Mandela was a terrorist, eh Maggie?)

Remember the Poll Tax?

The riots, the strikes?

yep - she was a great leader 

As for the breaking up of the utility companies, do you remember the time when it took 3 months + to get a phone installed ?
Falkland Islands- there are many places like this which we the general public don't think or no about until a problem occurs.
Interest rates- yes they where high at times.
Unemployment 3 million eh, well just think what it really is today 2+ million officily today with numerous ones moved over to disabilty benefit to hide the figures, then don't include under 18s etc. I would estimate the real level to be about 4 to 4.5 million today.
Mandela a terrorist- well look at the facts, both he and his wife where suspected off being involved in a murder. And rightly or wrongly the law at the time found him guilty. wether that law was wrong is for better people than me to decide.
The poll tax, my favourite. This was fantastic, my aging last grandparent paid about 10% of the poll tax because it involved the ability to pay and how likely you where to use the services. All the poll tax did was make those pay who should be paying, and saved our pensioners and vulnerable people a bit of money.

The riots and srikes, riots can't really comment as they did not happen where I was living. The miners strikes, depends on what side of the fence you sat. But the arthur scargill should take 99% of the blame for the miners strike. He was demanding that the pits stay open regardless of cost. Is that feasible ? 

She was needed a time when the country was in desperate trouble. under the previous labour government, the unions arrived at 10 Downing Street and told the prime minister what they wanted, and if he did not agree, half the unions came out on strike.

where do i start? 

i'm rarely rendered speechless by a post on OOF 

As I said I cannot comment on the riots, as they did not happen where I was living.
Again the strikes, perhaps I could suggest you googling for the demands that arthur scargill was asking for. No country in the world could afford what he was expecting.