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Author Topic: Site Inductions.  (Read 3636 times)

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Chris_H

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Re: Site Inductions.
« Reply #15 on: 21 September 2010, 09:53:22 »

It's mildly amusing that Corus are owned by Tata, an Indian company.

If you want to see Indian H&S at work, here's a picture!  See if you can spot the scaffold erectors on the left face.  Sorry the picture's not clearer but you have to wait for the lens to de-mist after coming out of the aircon.

If you can't see it, the scaffold is bamboo tied with hessian rope.
« Last Edit: 21 September 2010, 09:55:08 by ChrisH174 »
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Sixstring

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Re: Site Inductions.
« Reply #16 on: 21 September 2010, 10:08:42 »

Don't get me started her, this is my pet rant at the moment!!!

Work this out............

In 1979 I got qualified as an "approved Electrician" after a training and apprenticing period of three years.
In 1980 decided to broaden my skill base and trained as a Mechanical Engineer, ( a further 3 years)
Have wired THOUSANDS of premises over the years, from little domestic houses to large scale industrial estates, everything from 12vdc to 415vAC 3 phase electrics.
I'm 50 in october, so have had more years experience than I care to count.
Recently took the industry standard City and Guilds exams for 17th edition IEE regs, and 2391 inspection and testing qualifications, so you would think I was well qualified and more than ably experienced, Right??

WRONG.   I'm not allowed to fit a 13A socket in my canteen for a tea urn cos I haven't got the new "Part P" qualification, which ANYBODY even if you are not an electrician can do for £850, and all it does is call you "competant" to fit a 13A socket according to the law.

Flamin hell....what have I trained all these years and got all the qualifications for??

Jobs for the boys, I think. This "part P" is for kitchen fitters etc to be able legally to fit sockets etc in new kitchens, that's all.

I am legally allowed to wire new builds and factory 415v systems, but not qualified to fit a tea urn socket???

Come on......................(rant over, sorry).
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Lizzie_Zoom

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Re: Site Inductions.
« Reply #17 on: 21 September 2010, 11:15:47 »

I can just imagine the language that would have come from the lips of the old steam railway drivers in past days if told they had to go through a course to re-train and give them a certificate at the end!

Apart from *@$&*">< ??!!!!, all the old drivers would say "we wrote the bloody manual"!! And that they did! :D :D ;)

Why society cannot accept somebody's experience and knowledge as all the qualifications they need is beyond me! ::) ::)
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Phil

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Re: Site Inductions.
« Reply #18 on: 21 September 2010, 11:31:23 »

Quote
Its the same sort of thing for my dad, been a builder for 40+ years but now has to take courses to work on a building site, all of which cost him money.

What a joke.  ::)



Quote

Why society cannot accept somebody's experience and knowledge as all the qualifications they need is beyond me! ::) ::)

Sorry but you are both wrong, although someone may have been doing something for a number of years, doesn't mean they are doing it right.

Things change and move on, without training how will they know?

I have been around building sites since i could walk and still in the industry, i have seen many changes, yes somethings may seem over the top, but if it saves 1 life surley that is far more important??

I am currently working on the main Olympic Stadium in Stratford, the aim of the project is to be the FIRST EVER main stadium in the modern olympics to be built without killing ONE worker

Simple goal but obviously very difficult to achieve as its never been done before!

Its not just an insurance thing its saving people getting injured, if you care to ignore that then when YOU have and accident at work don't go blaming everyone else because you couldn't be ar5ed to listen. Oh and remeber your failure is likely to get the people above you in court or maybe in jail.

« Last Edit: 21 September 2010, 11:32:35 by Phil »
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Lizzie_Zoom

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Re: Site Inductions.
« Reply #19 on: 21 September 2010, 11:36:05 »

Quote
Quote
Its the same sort of thing for my dad, been a builder for 40+ years but now has to take courses to work on a building site, all of which cost him money.

What a joke.  ::)



Quote

Why society cannot accept somebody's experience and knowledge as all the qualifications they need is beyond me! ::) ::)

Sorry but you are both wrong, although someone may have been doing something for a number of years, doen't mean they are doing it right.

Things change and move on, without training how will they know?

I have been around building sites since i could walk and still in the industry i have seen many changes, yes somethings may seem over the top, but if it saves 1 life surley that is far more important??

I am currently working on the main Olympic Stadium in Stratford, the aim of the project is to be the FIRST EVER main stadium in the modern olympics to be built without killing ONE worker

Simple goal but obviously very difficult to achieve as its never been done before!

Its not just an insurance thing its saving people getting injured, if you care to ignore that then when YOU have and accident at work don't go blaming everyone else because you couldn't be ar5ed to listen. Oh and remeber your failure is likely to get the people above you in court or maybe in jail.



Fair comment Phil :y :y

I must admit that in the past workers lives were treated as disposable. For instance 100 lives were lost when Brunel built his Box Tunnel near Bath, and around 76 were lost when the Forth Railway Bridge was built :'( :'(.

I was thinking more of specialist skilled workers, more than site workers with my comments, but of course the latter is the subject of this thread! ::) ::) :D :D ;)
« Last Edit: 21 September 2010, 11:36:44 by Lizzie_Zoom »
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Phil

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Re: Site Inductions.
« Reply #20 on: 21 September 2010, 11:39:00 »

Quote
My wife told me today that she can't treat children because she's not trained for it.  She's been a (SRN) nurse for 35 years and has brought up two girls, run youth groups, been first aider at school sports days bla bla bla.  Has about 12 CRBs on the go.

This country will disappear up its own backside before long. >:( >:( >:(

And if they didn't do the check on everyone and let the one person through who turns out to be a kiddy fiddler, how long would it be before you were on here banginig on about it?

Its done for a reason, long term sevice means nothing unfortunately
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Sixstring

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Re: Site Inductions.
« Reply #21 on: 21 September 2010, 12:43:12 »

Whilst I take the opinion that "just because you have been doing it for years, does'nt mean you are doing it right" is valid, I HAVE got the current qualifications, and beyond those needed to change a 13A skt!!
What I'm taking issue with is the powers that be are not acknowledging the experience and skill of a particular sector of employment, and making yet another one that any tom, dick, or harry can get "approved" for, as long as he/she has a pulse and £850!!
I know office workers who have done the 2 day course, and somehow are now "skilled and approved" to fit extra sockets to a house!!
 Bloody scandalous.   Now to be able to do today what I did yesterday, it will cost me another £850.....the lecturer at my local college agrees with me, but he's happy to take my money for next to nothing, and also he's supposed to teach me, but he's only 26 and NEVER ever been in industry in his life!!


Totally wrong.
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Dishevelled Den

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Re: Site Inductions.
« Reply #22 on: 21 September 2010, 14:09:19 »

Quote
Quote
My wife told me today that she can't treat children because she's not trained for it.  She's been a (SRN) nurse for 35 years and has brought up two girls, run youth groups, been first aider at school sports days bla bla bla.  Has about 12 CRBs on the go.

This country will disappear up its own backside before long. >:( >:( >:(

And if they didn't do the check on everyone and let the one person through who turns out to be a kiddy fiddler, how long would it be before you were on here banginig on about it?

Its done for a reason, long term sevice means nothing unfortunately



You make an important point in this and your other post Phil.

The problem with such legislation however is that it appears to try to embrace every matter and take care of every eventuality: but by doing so, appears to become overly legislative and cumbersome in practice.

There seems to so much duplication of effort, time wasted and resources expended that it makes the laudable reason for having such legislation enacted in the first place fall into ridicule.

There is now, in this country, a fundamental disconnect between reasonable caution, exercised in a proportionate sensible way, and the excessive application of the dictates of such legislation by individuals, many of whom are merely box tickers, solely interested in retaining their jobs.

Insofar as your point about 'kiddie fiddlers' is concerned, with the deplorable standard and lack good sense and awareness regularly exhibited by our public officials, there is no guarantee that such people wouldn't escape notice.

Again, as with so many of the initiatives trundled out for the ‘betterment’ of society, the H&S legislation often falls to live up to its expectation - as it's very much a case of the theoretical overwhelming the practical.

Good sense and measured application have sadly given way to legions of jobs-worth zealots intent in applying the ‘rules’ at all costs.
« Last Edit: 21 September 2010, 14:26:16 by Zulu77 »
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beemerdevil

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Re: Site Inductions.
« Reply #23 on: 21 September 2010, 14:18:20 »

Quote
I collect steel from a Corus site near Bristol. 

Their H&S is something to behold.... really it is.

Wearing a Hard Hat is mandatory, even when sat in your cab.  WHY????? That 8tonne RSJ being moved by a crane above the cab is more than capable of turning the cab into tin-foil, so what on earth is the skid-lid going to do?  :-/

Wearing a Hi-Viz is mandatory, even when sat in your cab.  WHY????? If wannabe Michael Shumacher in that Fork-Lift cant see my gleaming white vehicle, what chance has he got of seeing me sat in it?

Wearing Safety Boots is mandatory, even when sat in your cab..... I think you know where I'm coming from.

yea Broomie ...... [size=12]you might drop yer flask on yer toes !!!!!!!!  :y :y[/size]
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Kevin Wood

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Re: Site Inductions.
« Reply #24 on: 21 September 2010, 14:22:08 »

Quote
And if they didn't do the check on everyone and let the one person through who turns out to be a kiddy fiddler, how long would it be before you were on here banginig on about it?

Yes, but, as someone who has been certified as a "non-kiddy-fiddler" in order to teach children about amateur radio I can tell you that the process involves filling in a form and sending it off. No references were followed up. Presumably criminal record checked but what percentage of those who present a risk would have a glaring criminal record?

It's just a matter of ticking a box to say you have been through the motions of "checking" and therefore aren't to blame when it all goes wrong.

Quote
I know office workers who have done the 2 day course, and somehow are now "skilled and approved" to fit extra sockets to a house!!

Same thing. Been on course, money paid, box ticked. Competent. >:(

Most of these schemes are more concerned with trade associations creating work for their members, and they have to avoid excluding the knuckle-draggers who fit kitchens for B&Q so can't make it necessary to demonstrate competence beyond turning up on the right day and paying the fee! Safety of the public is way down the list.

Kevin
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Chris_H

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Re: Site Inductions.
« Reply #25 on: 21 September 2010, 14:47:28 »

Quote
Quote
My wife told me today that she can't treat children because she's not trained for it.  She's been a (SRN) nurse for 35 years and has brought up two girls, run youth groups, been first aider at school sports days bla bla bla.  Has about 12 CRBs on the go.

This country will disappear up its own backside before long. >:( >:( >:(

And if they didn't do the check on everyone and let the one person through who turns out to be a kiddy fiddler, how long would it be before you were on here banginig on about it?

Its done for a reason, long term sevice means nothing unfortunately
You've read me quite wrong there.

The gripe I have is that the powers that ban people from practicing are not necessarily competent to assess the people they are banning.

There's just been a story on the BBC News about a rail company that doesn't allow its staff to provide first aid assistance to passengers; even if they happen to have first-aid trained staff on duty.  All part of the modern way of doing society. >:(
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Richie London

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Re: Site Inductions.
« Reply #26 on: 21 September 2010, 16:07:22 »

site i was on in windsor hotel refurb, no stepladders, no hop ups. caged in platforms only. rubble bins were only filled up a ft, 2 to carry it down to the skip, probably weighed about 10kilos. yet it was ok for 1 man to carry a half hr fire exit door up 3 flights of stairs. 
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Bent valve

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Re: Site Inductions.
« Reply #27 on: 21 September 2010, 19:45:29 »

Quote
I have to get a hot work permit now to use the soldering iron in the lab  :-?
Not to mention fume extraction and lead free solder i'll bet!
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waspy

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Re: Site Inductions.
« Reply #28 on: 21 September 2010, 19:59:46 »

Try working Offshore (Oil Rigs, Ships). H&S is paramount. All work & i mean all work you do has to have permit.
I have no problems with H&S Offshore, but some of what we have to do in the normal work place is just plain stupid.
H.S.E have to introduce new rules & regs to justify their existance.
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Mysteryman

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Re: Site Inductions.
« Reply #29 on: 21 September 2010, 20:02:02 »

Quote
Try working Offshore (Oil Rigs, Ships). H&S is paramount. All work & i mean all work you do has to have permit.
I have no problems with H&S Offshore, but some of what we have to do in the normal work place is just plain stupid.
H.S.E have to introduce new rules & regs to justify their existance.


Except if you work for BP? ;D
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