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[Psychoca]

....
remembering that 1749kg is the cars unladen weight, and the 3500kg limit is the gross laden weight...

...

but you get the gist of what I mean though .......

Indeed I do...

I found out I needed a trailer licence after I had spent a summer trawling Agricultural bits and pieces all over the country, carrying a large trailer with things like Combine wheels and stuff on them, certainly well over the 3500kg MAM that I should have been limted too...  At that time, even my boss hadn't realised there was a trailer license that I need either...

Still haven't done the test, but, I don't pull the trailer anymore...

[Entwood]

Well Andy has asked me to comment so here goes ... and it is actually quite simple.

Category B licence : (anyone who has passed their test since 1 January 1997 and not taken the additional +E part) :

a) Combined authorised mass must not exceed 3500 Kgs; Trailer authorised mass must not exceed towing vehicle unladen weight.

b) The combined authorised mass of 3500 kgs CAN be exceeded IF the trailer MAM is less than 750 Kgs, where the combined mass can be up to 4250Kgs - this will never apply to an Omega .. but might to a Ford Transit ... 

Category B + E .. those of us with "grandfather rights" ie .. passed the test before 1 Jan 1997, or those who have taken part E and passed:

Any vehicle up to 3500 kgs MAM towing a trailer such that the combined MAM of the towing vehicle AND the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the maximum permitted train weight for the towing vehicle. There is no ratio limit on trailer or towing vehicle... (the caravan club 85% is a GUIDE not a legal requirement)

NOTE : towing with a "medium size vehicle" .. ie a vehicle with a MAM greater than 3500 kgs - eg   some Ford Transits etc - needs a C1 + E license .. the 3500 kgs for a B +E is non-negotiable ... I know several folks who have come unstuck ..

Also .. all these are "plated" figures .. not actual weights.. ie MAM = Maximum AUTHORISED Mass ....  not what you actually weigh at any time.

HTH

I'll take a picyure of my VIN plate and post up examples shortly..... if it helps ..

[Mr Skrunts]

Would imagine a car with all the holiday gear and 4 8/10 stone adults and a full tank of juice, couple of crates of lager plus the batbie, and the van on the back with some bits and pieces on soon starts toting the weight limit up.

[Entwood]

Would imagine a car with all the holiday gear and 4 8/10 stone adults and a full tank of juice, couple of crates of lager plus the batbie, and the van on the back with some bits and pieces on soon starts toting the weight limit up.

What it actually weighs is unimportant initially ... it is what it is ALLOWED to weigh tht effects if you are legal to tow it.

If you exceed what it is ALLOWED to weigh, then your licence matters not, you are "done" for "unsafe loading"

2 seperate problems/laws/circumstances... 

[Kevin Wood]

Reverse + Hitch
Reverse in a S pattern to a loading bay (with 1 allowable Shunt)
then drive around your local test centre town for an hour or so, abiding by road laws... 

I agree, it is in some aspects a stupid test, but, as your vehicle gets heavier, the handling characteristics are altered (I knew someone who had their Omega written off when the brakes failed on a trailer, lifted the back end of the car and pushed them into the back of another car)...

.. and that test won't teach you much about the handling characteristics.

At the end of the day, towing, like most things, requires a little common sense. The towing speed limit is there for a reason, and a very real reason in comparison to the speed limit for a car alone IMHO.

It might not be significantly more "unsafe" to ignore the limit and drive a car at 80 or 90 MPH but anyone towing at 80 MPH needs a serious talking to.

Stopping distances are also important. Trailer brakes do fail. Towing combinations are not as stable as a car when braking hard and / or from high speed so much longer distances need to be left ahead of a towing combination to avoid the need fro heavy braking.

I don't really see how ticking a box and taking a little jaunt with an instructor and trailer on the back will make much difference, TBH.

Kevin

[Andy B]

Well Andy has asked me to comment so here goes ... and it is actually quite simple.

 .......

I must be simple then ...... 
how about using kerb weight and gross train weights ..... I might then understand :-/. I'm glad I passed my test as the world was just turning to colour     

[Entwood]

Okies .. a couple of little examples, using the VIN plate from a 2001 Elite Saloon .. YOUR CAR MAY BE DIFFERENT SO CHECK FIRST ..

These are my personal views as I see the limits...it is YOUR responsibility to check that you are legal.



Top line is the Maximum Authorised Mass for the Car ..  in this case 2200 Kg

Second line is the Maximum Authorised Train Weight .... 4075 Kgs the maximum it + trailer can weigh.

Next two lines are maximum axle weights and although important play no part in this bit.

From the manual  the unladen weight of my car is 1744 Kg

So .. Category B licence holder :

May tow up to a TOTAL TRAIN weight of 3500 kgs, and the car has a MAM of 2200 kgs

3500 Kgs - 2200 Kgs = 1300 kgs

So it is legal for a Cat B holder to tow a trailer with a MAM of up to 1300 kgs .. note that is MAM .. not the weight ON the trailer .. it is the plated limit of the trailer.

This is because .. 3500 kgs has not been exceeded, the trailer 1300kgs is less than the unladen weight of the car.

Category B + E

The maximum authorised train weight is 4075, the maximum authorised car weight is 2200 so

4075 - 2200 = 1875

1875 kgs is the MAM of a trailer that I as a B+E holder can pull, again .. not on the trailer, but plated for the trailer.

Now, my caravan plate has a MTPLW (Maximum Total Permitted Laden Weight) which is the same as MAM of 1650 Kgs so I can legally tow quite happily..... on my B+E licence.

There endeth the lesson ... 

HTH

[zirax]

Thanks for doing this. If I end up towing the mr2 at a later date I will be right on the limit. So, it would probably be better to take the extra test. 

[david036]

Thanks Entwood, for posting that info.  Makes explaining it to people much easier!!  CAn now show the mthis post

[Dishevelled Den]

Okies .. a couple of little examples, using the VIN plate from a 2001 Elite Saloon .. YOUR CAR MAY BE DIFFERENT SO CHECK FIRST ..

These are my personal views as I see the limits...it is YOUR responsibility to check that you are legal.

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/402/imag0029k.jpg



There endeth the lesson ... 

HTH

A splendidly practical explanation. 8-)


More tea vicar?

[waspy]

All caravans should be burned & then this problem would instantly disappear

[Squidy]

i passed my test in 2001 so i do have to take the trailer test

[Martin_1962]

I cannot reverse a small trailer - yet I can a caravan

[Andy B]

i passed my test in 2001 so i do have to take the trailer test

read Entwood's post. it depends how big your car is and the size of the trailer you want to tow.

[VXL V6]

I cannot reverse a small trailer - yet I can a caravan

Problem is that you can't actually see the trailer as it pivots. A couple of sticks attached to the rear corners can help