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Author Topic: rioting students  (Read 6835 times)

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Lizzie_Zoom

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Re: rioting students
« Reply #45 on: 11 December 2010, 09:52:28 »

Quote
It's a part of the deterioration in general standards within this country.

Encouraged by gutless politicians, indulgent parents and  laissez faire 'enlightened' individuals all too prepared to spout their opinions without having the slightest intention (or ability) of being any constructive use whatever  to the nation.


People were saying that Zulu in the 18th, 19th, and 20th century! ;D ;D ;D ;D

It is purely the perception of the contemporary population that produces those outpouring of sentiment and opinion! ::) ::) ::) ::)   

It goes hand in hand with mans endevour to progress and create a better, fairer world, but always finding resistence from the natural ways of mankind with an instinct for self interest ;)
« Last Edit: 11 December 2010, 09:53:44 by Lizzie_Zoom »
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the alarming man

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Re: rioting students
« Reply #46 on: 11 December 2010, 10:19:57 »

i am with milwal on this one..water cannons first..first wash some of them have had in a long time..although water cannon can't be used in this country as it is a indiscriminate weapon..more effective is tear gas which we can use if that dont work send the dogs in

can those who support the idiots who want all their education for next too nothing tell me who will utimiately benefit from it...not the country but them
Also why should i pay for teaching someone who wants to take a degree in surf board management ...that right guys that'a degree course run by bournemouth uni...unbelivable ::)
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Shackeng

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Re: rioting students
« Reply #47 on: 11 December 2010, 10:25:20 »

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Students who profess to be intelligent educated people, behaving like this! They should try putting something into society instead of wanting more and more for nothing.

A news reporter was interviewing 3 students, and it was blatantly obvious they didn't have any grasp of current affairs or what they're actually protesting about. Had they bothered to understand, or did they just go on a protest for the fun of it?

Some other students were also chanting  'Give us our money back' or something similar! What money? What are they talking about?

As for that Aaron Porter (president of NUS). I bet all he's ever done is gone to uni, had a bloody good 3/4 years drinking, partying having a laugh, scraped through, perhaps gone on to do a masters because he likes the 'student lifestyle' then got in his current position. What the hell does he know? He's just a silly boy who hasn't grown up. Where is all the money coming from? Students have to take a hit like the rest of us.

Not to mention that degrees aren't worth the paper they're written on now, never mind the mickey mouse degrees! You couldn't make this up!!

And sadly, no question but that he is a future Minister. I predict that he will probably have, or get, a legal qualification, become a researcher in the H of C, and be an MP in 5 or 6 years, AND KNOW NOTHING AT ALL ABOUT LIFE, yet be dictating to the rest of us. Anyone remember Jack Straw as president of the NUS? I do, and that is exactly what he did.

Given the authority, two things I would introduce.

1. Any phrase or comment which implies that the Government has money of its own would be banned, e.g. " The Government should spend money..." etc. To be replaced by "the Taxpayer should spend money...".

2. To stand for election as an MP, a candidate must be a minimum of 35 years of age, and have been in full time employment, for at least 10 years since leaving full-time education.

I am also unable to vote in the poll due to limited genuine options, but I am interested that no-one has commented as to why the Government has taken the step of increasing fees in this way. Looking at what drastic cuts have taken place in other areas, Defence, Arts etc., I have a strong suspicion that the Country's finances are in a far more parlous state than we have been told, and the  reason we have not been told is to avoid affecting our international credit rating, and hence currency stabilty.
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Chris_H

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Re: rioting students
« Reply #48 on: 11 December 2010, 10:43:03 »

What about increasing tuition fees a bit more and using it to ring-fence the police budget  That would be a slap in the face for the protesters.

I don't think the argument about infiltration of the marches washes one bit.  It's happened many times before and can't be hidden behind.  If you want to march you need to ensure that untoward behaviour is negligible.  That is going to mean working closer with the police IMHO.
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millwall

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Re: rioting students
« Reply #49 on: 11 December 2010, 10:47:41 »

they defaced the monument of Churchill, if it wasn't for that man and his leadership they'd be speaking German, and walking in lederhosen. >:( >:(

most of these students havent got a clue  all they worry about is which bar does the cheapest pint   and no the police dont need investigating over these riots   if you want to behave like they did  then they deserve all what they got




« Last Edit: 11 December 2010, 10:49:58 by millwall »
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the alarming man

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Re: rioting students
« Reply #50 on: 11 December 2010, 10:52:42 »

why should the police need investigating if anything i dont think they used enough force with these  idiots...if you are not there you can not get hurt  :y
« Last Edit: 11 December 2010, 10:53:18 by the_alarming_man »
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'the more people i meet...the more i like the dog'

The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.

Debs.

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Re: rioting students
« Reply #51 on: 11 December 2010, 11:09:01 »

Quote
Quote
It's a part of the deterioration in general standards within this country.

Encouraged by gutless politicians, indulgent parents and  laissez faire 'enlightened' individuals all too prepared to spout their opinions without having the slightest intention (or ability) of being any constructive use whatever  to the nation.


People were saying that Zulu in the 18th, 19th, and 20th century! ;D ;D ;D ;D

It is purely the perception of the contemporary population that produces those outpouring of sentiment and opinion! ::) ::) ::) ::)   

It goes hand in hand with mans endevour to progress and create a better, fairer world, but always finding resistence from the natural ways of mankind with an instinct for self interest ;)
;)Would you be a Philosophy or History major by any chance, Lizzie? :D
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Dishevelled Den

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Re: rioting students
« Reply #52 on: 11 December 2010, 11:28:13 »

Quote
Quote
It's a part of the deterioration in general standards within this country.

Encouraged by gutless politicians, indulgent parents and  laissez faire 'enlightened' individuals all too prepared to spout their opinions without having the slightest intention (or ability) of being any constructive use whatever  to the nation.


People were saying that Zulu in the 18th, 19th, and 20th century! ;D ;D ;D ;D

It is purely the perception of the contemporary population that produces those outpouring of sentiment and opinion! ::) ::) ::) ::)   

It goes hand in hand with mans endevour to progress and create a better, fairer world, but always finding resistence from the natural ways of mankind with an instinct for self interest ;)



In terms of these demonstrations Lizzie I fail to see how the self-interest of those students who, quite rightly, wish to argue the case over fees can be advanced by participating in mayhem (or allowing their cause to be linked to it)

Mass demonstrations are prone to end in confusion, excessive behaviour, violence and a blurred message steered by those who use the legitimate demonstration for their own purposes.

Can it be said on foot of what we witnessed on Friday that this was indeed a noble cause and did the underlying desire for a better fairer world warrant this behaviour?

I would have thought it was just for the reasons I suggested that such circumstances have been allowed to occur, however even should those sentiments have been exhibited in the times you alluded to, the present generation have greater power to wreak destruction and unrest thanks to the technological and self-oriented (for many) age we live in.

The greater concern I have is beyond the truncated (for many) self-concern shown by people determined to get their way at all costs and more for the workable stability of the nation.
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Nickbat

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Re: rioting students
« Reply #53 on: 11 December 2010, 12:30:45 »

An excellent commentary on this subject. The fault, it is argued, lies squarely with the attitude of the political elite.

Well worth reading. :y

http://autonomousmind.wordpress.com/2010/12/10/the-rules-of-the-game-have-changed/
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Shackeng

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Re: rioting students
« Reply #54 on: 11 December 2010, 13:31:24 »

Quote
An excellent commentary on this subject. The fault, it is argued, lies squarely with the attitude of the political elite.

Well worth reading. :y

http://autonomousmind.wordpress.com/2010/12/10/the-rules-of-the-game-have-changed/


A well written piece, and, sadly, very true.
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Dishevelled Den

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Re: rioting students
« Reply #55 on: 11 December 2010, 14:43:46 »

I can agree with much of what the Mind has said - however - the following should be carefully considered;

However I can now envisage violence being justified as a means to an end – not in order to demand money from the government, but rather demanding the restoration of democracy and representative governance. Not violence to attack the police, law and order. But rather to remove those in the ruling class who abuse the law for their own ends and subvert our country, handing it over to foreign control from underneath us without mandate or permission.

In my experience those people who consider their cause sufficiently justified to use violence in an attempt to realise it invariably fail to appreciate that such violence will always bring them into conflict with the forces of law and order, so in this case would this not provide an immediate stumbling block?

As far as I see the Mind is suggesting that a rebellion against the duly elected government of the day (however piss-poor in our case) is the only way to rid the country of it.

I'm afraid that I see great danger here as, usually, when such people take up arms to do such a thing the result is far from desirable. A vacuum can develop in governance thereby opening to door to action by others waiting to exploit the breakdown in order.  The temptation will always be for yet other people who disagree with the ‘new’ incumbents to resort to violence in an effort to advance their own cause.

I would suggest that, short of an open rebellion with all that it entails, we are stuck with what we have (however unsatisfactory) in the hope that people capable of putting this country and its people first are installed to govern by a democratic duly elected process.

The use of violence may seem to provide the answers sought in the Mind's piece - in theory - but I can say the reality of such violence, once released, is not an experience many would wish to have as this violence, by its nature, is often capricious and is incontrollable on any practical level.
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Lizzie_Zoom

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Re: rioting students
« Reply #56 on: 11 December 2010, 17:41:23 »

Quote
Quote
Quote
It's a part of the deterioration in general standards within this country.

Encouraged by gutless politicians, indulgent parents and  laissez faire 'enlightened' individuals all too prepared to spout their opinions without having the slightest intention (or ability) of being any constructive use whatever  to the nation.


People were saying that Zulu in the 18th, 19th, and 20th century! ;D ;D ;D ;D

It is purely the perception of the contemporary population that produces those outpouring of sentiment and opinion! ::) ::) ::) ::)   

It goes hand in hand with mans endevour to progress and create a better, fairer world, but always finding resistence from the natural ways of mankind with an instinct for self interest ;)
;)Would you be a Philosophy or History major by any chance, Lizzie? :D


I am a History major student, also studying Politics that of course covers the Philosophers and ideology Debs :D :D :D ;)
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millwall

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Re: rioting students
« Reply #57 on: 11 December 2010, 17:44:06 »

Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
It's a part of the deterioration in general standards within this country.

Encouraged by gutless politicians, indulgent parents and  laissez faire 'enlightened' individuals all too prepared to spout their opinions without having the slightest intention (or ability) of being any constructive use whatever  to the nation.


People were saying that Zulu in the 18th, 19th, and 20th century! ;D ;D ;D ;D

It is purely the perception of the contemporary population that produces those outpouring of sentiment and opinion! ::) ::) ::) ::)   

It goes hand in hand with mans endevour to progress and create a better, fairer world, but always finding resistence from the natural ways of mankind with an instinct for self interest ;)
;)Would you be a Philosophy or History major by any chance, Lizzie? :D


I am a History major student, also studying Politics that of course covers the Philosophers and ideology Debs :D :D :D ;)
aaaarrrrgggghh another student    only joking lizzie ;D
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Dodger

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Re: rioting students
« Reply #58 on: 11 December 2010, 18:20:03 »

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There's nothing wrong with a protest but when they start rioting then they need to be sorted out and made to pay for the damage/extra policing, just tot it up and add it onto next years fees ;D

Totally agree... The pictures of 'students' urinating on war memorials, swinging from the flags attatched to it, throwing bricks through windows and spraying graffitti on walls, is NOT acceptable..

I have no problem with the students demonstrating, just so long as they act within the law...

The statement by one so called protester that 'violence is the only way to get results' as printed in the Sun today, is basically a disgrace.....

Water cannons?? why not do as other country's do... call in the army, and shoot the Bl**dy lot!!!!!

Rant over.............. :-X
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Lizzie_Zoom

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Re: rioting students
« Reply #59 on: 11 December 2010, 18:42:10 »

Quote
Quote
Quote
It's a part of the deterioration in general standards within this country.

Encouraged by gutless politicians, indulgent parents and  laissez faire 'enlightened' individuals all too prepared to spout their opinions without having the slightest intention (or ability) of being any constructive use whatever  to the nation.


People were saying that Zulu in the 18th, 19th, and 20th century! ;D ;D ;D ;D

It is purely the perception of the contemporary population that produces those outpouring of sentiment and opinion! ::) ::) ::) ::)   

It goes hand in hand with mans endevour to progress and create a better, fairer world, but always finding resistence from the natural ways of mankind with an instinct for self interest ;)



In terms of these demonstrations Lizzie I fail to see how the self-interest of those students who, quite rightly, wish to argue the case over fees can be advanced by participating in mayhem (or allowing their cause to be linked to it)

Mass demonstrations are prone to end in confusion, excessive behaviour, violence and a blurred message steered by those who use the legitimate demonstration for their own purposes.

Can it be said on foot of what we witnessed on Friday that this was indeed a noble cause and did the underlying desire for a better fairer world warrant this behaviour?

I would have thought it was just for the reasons I suggested that such circumstances have been allowed to occur, however even should those sentiments have been exhibited in the times you alluded to, the present generation have greater power to wreak destruction and unrest thanks to the technological and self-oriented (for many) age we live in.

The greater concern I have is beyond the truncated (for many) self-concern shown by people determined to get their way at all costs and more for the workable stability of the nation.


They are young and naive Zulu, with a wish to engage in political intercourse over their grievances, who will always have an element, either within their ranks, or outside them that is attracted to causing destruction and mayhem.  This can sometimes be classed as direct action by the Anarchists who have been functioning for a very long time.  In summary the students are striving for what they see as their right, some of them have grown up on the promise by Tony Blair that a priority was "Education, Education, Education", only to find their 'elders, betters and wiser' men have reneged on 'a contract' with promises being cruelly broken.  That is no role model type action to display to the young and naive!!

But yes Zulu Great Britain has benefited from the actions of brave sections of society who have challenged the establishment since the French Revolution of 1789.  Britain has witnessed events from the Royal Navy mutinies of 1797, the United Irishmen, The London Correspondence Society of the late 1790s, Luddism of 1811-12, to Chartism of 1838 - 48.  All these events attracted much violence, on the side of both the protesters and the government of the day.  Hangings, shootings, riots, transpired, with the Peterloo Massacre of 16th August 1819 and Newport uprising, 4th November1839 claiming many lives.  The Chartists even managed to (allegedly) attack the Royal Coach in London (echos of yesterday!!) during their last mass protest for their third National Petition in 1848.

These actions over many years were organised by the common man, and women, against the ruling powers to gain various rights, conditions, and guarantees of legal justice for all.  In the late nineteenth century unions were fighting for political power to gain rights for the common worker, which after the 1914-18 war produced the Labour Party with its Constitution of 1918.  The Suffragettes rioted and caused civil disobedience to gain women's right to vote.

Throughout the 20th century there were protests against Mosley's Brown Shirts, nuclear weapons, The Vietnam War, Mine Closures, and The Poll Tax, to name but a few, which all featured violence in varying degrees.

Yes Zulu man has historically fought for their self interests, and linked together with others of the same sympathies.  It has never been easy, never very pleasant, but to change the political path of the resident government takes sacrifice sometimes, which with the natural state of man, happens.

And when we talk of violence by youngsters in 2010, what have they been brought up on?  Government sponsored massacre of human life in millions during the 1914-18 war, the 1939-45 war, the Korean War, The Iraqi Invasion, the Afghan War to name the key ones.

Yes sometimes "political progress" is not cheap, and comes at a price.  But the day our governments and people's cease to be violent, will be the day our young will start to be pacifist, but we know that natural state will never happen any day soon. ;) ;)

So before everyone condemns the students, think of the past. Think of say the rioting miners during 1984/5 fighting the police.  Also remember the Anarchists will always be amoung us.  Overall remember that one persons justified cause is anothers unnecessary action.

« Last Edit: 11 December 2010, 18:44:20 by Lizzie_Zoom »
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