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[bluey]

My understanding is that the delays and cancellations are due to the snow that has fallen, which is described as an exceptional event.

I would class an airplane catching fire as a pretty exceptional event too.  Does BAA adopt the same attitude in having the resources to cope with such a situation?

[Pitchfork]

Total nightmare from what I've seen on the news, surely the flights back log will take a while to clear as well, the longer it goes on.

Totally unprepared for adverse weather. Did I hear they have just spent 12 million on the latest snow clearing machinery? And that Gatwick have cleared their runways in a fraction of the time....?

I think there's still only one at Gatwick

[Pitchfork]

I have been snowed in in Munich (not renowned for being a well-run airport) and in the US in various places (some where snow is as rare as here if not more so). In all cases the backlog disappeared as soon as it stopped snowing and there was plenty of help finding accommodation for those stranded.

Strikes me that BAA don't give a toss, TBH.

Regarding de-icing, it's easy. You park up a de-icing rig on the taxiway as the aircraft turn onto the runway and de-ice them as they reach the front of the queue. Having said that, it's been above zero for 24 hours, so I can't see icing being a problem any more.

I do hope you manage to get away eventually.

Kevin

Works that way in Oslo!!

[Gaffers]

Ok, trying again in the morning.  If you dont hear from me then I have been sucessful 

[Dishevelled Den]

Hope you meet with success G.

[aaronjb]

Has he gone? Can we all talk about him now? 

I was listening to Radio 2 this morning - someone called in who is an ex-RAF man and was recalling the story of how they de-iced runways back in the day..

Two jet engines strapped to the back of the fuel bowser.  Apparently the only problem being that if you pointed them too far down, you melted the tarmac 

(And of course my mind has now gone blank, and I can't remember the aircraft the engines came from.. I'm thinking it was Lightning-era)

[Kevin Wood]

Has he gone? Can we all talk about him now? 

I was listening to Radio 2 this morning - someone called in who is an ex-RAF man and was recalling the story of how they de-iced runways back in the day..

Two jet engines strapped to the back of the fuel bowser.  Apparently the only problem being that if you pointed them too far down, you melted the tarmac 

(And of course my mind has now gone blank, and I can't remember the aircraft the engines came from.. I'm thinking it was Lightning-era)

A mate of mine from the Gliding club posted a picture of a similar device from his days at the a while back. Engines looked like Goblin / Ghost / Derwent centrifugal types IIRC.

I guess they probably bolted-on whatever was lying around and serviceable but obsolete / life expired for a non-critical role like that.

Kevin

[tunnie]

If that is the case, why not use an old 747? - Pimp it out a bit, lower it and put it on some alloys, with winter tyres  8-)

Just bumble about in that, sure one thats no longer air-worthy would not go for much either (in relative terms)

[Varche]

If that is the case, why not use an old 747? - Pimp it out a bit, lower it and put it on some alloys, with winter tyres  8-)Just bumble about in that, sure one thats no longer air-worthy would not go for much either (in relative terms)

Whilst I am sure it would work, I can just see BAA..... First they would have to wait till the next board meeting to discuss it, then a feasibility study would need to be done, then a project plan drawn up and then the lot scrapped when someone said "what about elf and safety?"

[Dishevelled Den]

Hope you meet with success G.

It appears that he may well have done so - well done G.

[Kevin Wood]

If that is the case, why not use an old 747? - Pimp it out a bit, lower it and put it on some alloys, with winter tyres  8-)Just bumble about in that, sure one thats no longer air-worthy would not go for much either (in relative terms)

Whilst I am sure it would work, I can just see BAA..... First they would have to wait till the next board meeting to discuss it, then a feasibility study would need to be done, then a project plan drawn up and then the lot scrapped when someone said "what about elf and safety?"

.. then negotiate the budget for the couple of tons of fuel that would be required every time you taxi it out to the runway, and a couple of tons to taxi it back again, plus a couple more tons to taxi it along the main runway clearing snow. More tons if you have to open the throttles a bit more to shift the snow.

You thought an Omega was thirsty?

Kevin

[Banjax]

In fairness, LHR is not the only airport to have suffered. At one stage Brussels had to cancel all flights as they ran out of de-icer!

Additionally, apart from the aprons having to be cleared of snow, each aircraft has to swept of snow and then de-icer applied. The aircraft MUST be airborne within one hour of that application or it has to be done again.

I'm not saying that BAA has handled the situation well by any means, but it is a bit too easy for armchair folk to forget that LHR is one of the biggest airports in the world...and also that they get their pre-season advice (I believe) from the Met Office, who seem to have thought that this winter would be mild, in keeping with their AGW faith.      

theres not a weather forecast in existence that is 100% reliable, its an educated guess - look at the weather data F1 teams use - they cant tell where and when its going to rain in the next 5mins let alone 5months 

for my tuppence, i reckon we'll see more extremes of weather (as NASA and the MetOffice predicts) - better get used to it 

there was a Norwegian Airport official on the radio said it took them approx 4mins to clear a runway after a heavy snowfall at Oslo and they hire 30-40 extra bodies in winter purely to clear snow, now I'd suggest they have a plan in place to quickly mobilise whats needed in the event of snow, but I also think you've got to look at Heathrow being too busy for its own good, UK isn't that big a country so why not spread the load around a bit? 

[Varche]

In fairness, LHR is not the only airport to have suffered. At one stage Brussels had to cancel all flights as they ran out of de-icer!

Additionally, apart from the aprons having to be cleared of snow, each aircraft has to swept of snow and then de-icer applied. The aircraft MUST be airborne within one hour of that application or it has to be done again.

I'm not saying that BAA has handled the situation well by any means, but it is a bit too easy for armchair folk to forget that LHR is one of the biggest airports in the world...and also that they get their pre-season advice (I believe) from the Met Office, who seem to have thought that this winter would be mild, in keeping with their AGW faith.      

theres not a weather forecast in existence that is 100% reliable, its an educated guess - look at the weather data F1 teams use - they cant tell where and when its going to rain in the next 5mins let alone 5months 

for my tuppence, i reckon we'll see more extremes of weather (as NASA and the MetOffice predicts) - better get used to it 

there was a Norwegian Airport official on the radio said it took them approx 4mins to clear a runway after a heavy snowfall at Oslo and they hire 30-40 extra bodies in winter purely to clear snow, now I'd suggest they have a plan in place to quickly mobilise whats needed in the event of snow, but I also think you've got to look at Heathrow being too busy for its own good, UK isn't that big a country so why not spread the load around a bit? 

Could build a new airport near Perth and a high speed train link (none stop) to London? Actually better would be one out to sea near London. All planes landing and taking off from the sea to minimise noise etc. A high speed rail link from there North and one to the centre of London. Ditto a motorway again with very few access points near the airport end.

I think you have hit the nail on the head. Nothing wrong with being the busiest airport in the world (and making lots of money from it) BUT you need to be nimble and make immediate decisions when there are difficulties. Not pfaff about for a day or so debating what to do. I noticed that they had Three different spokesmen (maybe more). What does that tell you?

[Dishevelled Den]

 I also think you've got to look at Heathrow being too busy for its own good, UK isn't that big a country so why not spread the load around a bit? 

Yes, I think you're getting a nibble there BJ.

LHR is running at capacity in my view - there's nothing really wrong with that if that capacity can be managed well.

We are beginning to see the practical cost to putting profit before sound operating procedures in a lot of our critical infrastructure - easily enough managed when things are reasonably all right but subject to chaotic attempts by managers to rectify a failing system when things begin to go wrong for a prolonged period.

[Dishevelled Den]

Actually better would be one out to sea near London. All planes landing and taking off from the sea to minimise noise etc. A high speed rail link from there North and one to the centre of London. Ditto a motorway again with very few access points near the airport end.

Yes, I certainly agree there - although when the Mayor of London suggested a similar thing a while ago he was ridiculed for some reason.